#196: Wimbledon 2023 Review

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 196 of Control the Controllables and it's a Wimbledon Review 2023. And what uh, two weeks that was or three weeks, if we talk about the qualifying event as well. And where do we start the storylines were flying from day one to day 14. And who couldn't believe it. King Carlito managed to take the title away from Novak. It was an incredibly entertaining match that got people around the world watching. And then we have Marketa Vondrousova. Who saw that one coming. I think we were all starting to think, in women's tennis that we had this big three, and people were going to start dominating and just as we think that somebody comes out of nowhere, really, I know that she played in the French Open final a few years ago, but for her to win, as the ninth ranked Czech player was was just incredible. So many more exciting stories to talk about whether it was the Brit Henry Searle winning the Jr. event, or Gordon Reed and Alfa Hewett winning their 18 Grand Slam. It was brilliant. And I've got our amazing panelists. As always, as we unpick the best bits, the not so good bits, the emotional bits. And the storylines as ever, we want to jump in to different storylines. And to get these amazing people together. I want to pick their brains. So we've got Freddie Nielsen, who's always by my side, the 2012 Wimbledon men's doubles champion. And then Gaby Dabrowski, who's been on our last couple of panels. Gaby from Canada is currently top 20 in the world, she's been as high as number four in the world in WTA doubles. And then Emily Webley Smith, a British tennis legend, who has had a brilliant career is still going strong. Aged 38,39 maybe Emily but still got is still going strong with a tennis and she's been with us the last few times. But sit back. I'm sure you've all got lots of opinion that you'd like to share. I'm sure you'll disagree with some of what we say. And hopefully agree with a little bit as well. The Wimbledon 2023 review our brilliant panel. So Wimbledon 2023 panelists a big welcome. How y'all doing?

Freddie Nielsen  02:53

Thanks again

Emily Webley-Smith  02:54

Great

Daniel Kiernan  02:55

And we're were minus two, no Kieron Vorster. So plenty of words that you guys will be able to get an edge with this evening. But where else to start but Centre Court The excitement, the history, the devastation, the exhilaration of everything that happened? I think we were all glued to our TVs around the world. And the question was, is it going to be CA 2 or is it going to be ND 24? And I think most of us for thought Freddie that and we were live tweeting you said it's going to take a serious effort for Alcaraz to keep up the level and he certainly did that.

Freddie Nielsen  03:37

Yeah, I thought it was a seismic performance. I was really impressed. I thought this was like, like a groundbreaking performance in men's tennis and we all knew that Carlos had the top level he's won a slam before but this one was different. This was Novak at his best in a place where he's very comfortable and has obviously had a lot of success. And Carlos won because he was the better player and he overcame some periods of momentum and I was really impressed by what I saw. I thought okay, he really did that was his. For me. That was his breakthrough match. I know he won a slam before but this was the one where he cemented his place as okay he is the new guy to beat. And

Daniel Kiernan  04:28

Well Robbie, I actually saw I saw on on Twitter, Robbie Koenig and I always like what Robbie says and he's been on the panel before he said it wasn't classic tennis Emily he said he said he actually felt that there was there was some low level tennis played low level by Alcaraz in the in the first set, and then in the third set Novak and he said it didn't even come close to the sort of tennis that we saw between Jannik Sinner and Alcaraz in in US Open last year. But for drama for everything that it stood for, for me, it'll go down in, in one of the kind of top five top six men's finals that we've seen in the last 30 years.

Emily Webley-Smith  05:12

Yes, very much so. And I think the spectacle of sport at its best with two gladiators in that arena was just unbelievable to watch as a fan as a player and as anything in between what was interesting with it, I do think Robbie at some points was correct with that statement, but I think the conditions had a lot had a lot to do with that, with it being as windy and as swirly as it was, and quite unpredictable. It was interesting that they kept the roof open for that final and the previous day for the women's they, they closed it regardless of the rain situation. But I think from I mean, you You started off, I wasn't actually sure who I wanted to win when I when I started watching the match. And I very rarely have that I'm quite clear on who I want when when two people are playing. And then as the match went on with the way how hard Carlos how how well he fought, it was just absolutely incredible and then did not falter did not hesitate for that age as well. When I think about the 20 year olds that I know. And when I think about what I was like at 20. It's just unbelievable.

Freddie Nielsen  06:28

Yeah, I don't think he was particularly wrong, but I don't think a great match necessarily needs it. I think it's great to have a match where it has everything. And we've certainly been blessed with that over the last few years. Yeah, some epic matches. But this was also this was a very epic, but okay, maybe it didn't have the same consistent level throughout five sets. But it had enough good level and especially at the end, that was pretty, pretty marvelous. But I don't think it needs to be perfect, perfect tennis to be a great drama or a really significant match or whatever it was, it was it was the youngster basically dethroning the reigning king.

Emily Webley-Smith  07:14

Yeah. And I think also in final, sometimes you expect a lot, and then it doesn't live up to it. And it absolutely did and more, which I thought was incredible, from the point of view of us watching it, and not knowing what's going to happen, but being able to relate to the ups and downs that they both had, and the two backhand errors that Djokovic made in that tie break, which was so uncharacteristic for him. I actually saw an interview afterwards. And they asked him, what was he thinking at 4015 when he was serving it out, and he said that he actually thought back to that Roger Federer Djokovic match when in the final when Djokovic won from match points down. And he actually thought to himself, take your opportunity now don't like, don't do what happened to Rog. Because even when Novak's match points down, he's still dangerous. And the fact that he had that thought, in that in the biggest moment of that and how much he studied that was was amazing to listen to and amazing to hear him talk afterwards.

Freddie Nielsen  08:20

Maybe it's just something subjective that but I feel like this match also reached a bigger non tennis audience than a lot of the previous matches have done. And I think that that to me, tells me that something extraordinary happened.

Daniel Kiernan  08:35

You're in my head, Freddie, because? Well, I was literally no, because so I was watching it with, with friends, you know, family friends, there was probably 10 families. And somebody kindly put on a barbecue. And you know, it kind of started as everyone was chattering. And I was kind of moving my head trying to get out the way of people in the way of the TV to watch it. And you just sensed as the afternoon went on, eyeballs started more and more get to the point where everyone was transfixed by what was happening and this this wasn't tennis friends, you know, this was this was people that tennis isn't really in their life. I actually got asked, didn't you win Wimbledon one year Dan? Like yesterday, you know, which, which I applied for if of course I did, let's just continue that conversation. You can think of me in that light. But yeah, that was that was the people that I was was with. And it really did it got all imagination. It got to every every single person I think and obviously being in Spain, the the Spanish songs were were being played and and you mentioned that them about serving for the match and yeah, it's I got asked that question, you know, it's got to the point everyone's got what's going to happen here, Dan, because they saw me as an expert after They were like the Djokovic is finished. I said no he's not Djokovic does what Djokovic does still. Don't worry about that, you know he's not finished is he's on his way back. He's still probably favorite for this match. So when he won that fourth set, I think they were like, oh my god, he actually knows what he's talking about. So they asked me is he going to really win this game is Alcaraz going to serve this out? And I said, it won't be easy. I'll tell you that right now. You know, he's gonna have to, he's gonna have to do something pretty special. And boy, did he do that, you know, with the drop shot the lob that volley at 15 All

Freddie Nielsen  10:35

The drop shot after the drop shot.

Emily Webley-Smith  10:37

Yeah, having met miss the first one. And then the second point, he did it again, and made it with a little Andy lob, I was amazing,

Daniel Kiernan  10:45

Incredible what but Gaby, what is going through the head at that point? You know, how? How can you? I mean, you know, you put yourself into that position. In on, you've been in some big matches yourself, how are we? How are you able to overcome those nerves? Those thoughts, those undoubted demons that potentially jump into your head,

Gaby Dabrowski  11:08

Tell you when I figure it out! It's it's not easy. I think the only way to get through it is to remove everything else that's going on, because everything else is just bullshit. I think it's pretty incredible that Carlos was actually able to think of that Roger match in 2019. I didn't know that. That's really remarkable that he was literally like, okay, take it while you have it. And don't let Novak back in. But I still think that's a really positive intention. And you could tell he, he played that game with positive intention. It was super impressive how he closed it out. I mean, it was, I don't know how you do that. Like, I don't know how you don't, even for a second hesitate or second guess. Or even on that stretch volley, how you maintain your balance in that position. Like, I really don't know, it was it was incredible. One part that was actually really interesting to me about the fifth set was I think it was like a third of the way through or maybe halfway through the set when it started to get a little bit windier. And Novak missed a couple of balls, but he actually like smiled. And it was a bit of a different reaction from him than normally he might get a little bit frustrated with the wind or kind of be like, throw his hands in the air of like, why is this happening? But it was almost like a knowing. I don't know, I know you never write off Novak but to me Novak's reaction was almost like, Ah, okay, there's going to be a change here. That's what I saw when I was watching his demeanor i the fifth set. But yeah, I mean, kudos to Alcatraz. It was super impressive.

Daniel Kiernan  12:48

Ready I saw another tweet. It says when the dowel can't win from the baseline, he goes to the net. And when Djokovic can't win from the baseline, he goes to the bathroom at two sets to one down. The bag was out we've seen it before. You know he come he comes back a different he comes back a different man. Alcaraz actually went love 30 down in that first game. He played a couple of poor points. You know, he was kind of left waiting for waiting for seven minutes. Is that sport? Is that how it should be? Is that part of the drama that we love? You know we've we've got a few different rules that came came out to 33 seconds in between points was the average of the Djokovic which was taking, you know, and it's supposed to be 25 I think Alcaraz was was 27. You know, as he pushing the boundaries a little bit.

Freddie Nielsen  13:47

I think it's looks a little bit worse because it's in the final of a Wimbledon but I think most people do it and most people have come to terms with the fact that it's a reality of the game. It's a loophole. They've had to make some rules to against it. I think notably when Tsitsipas played Murray and US Open that time when Mary made some pretty heavy comments about it. I think after that limited two to five minute bathroom breaks and once you reach the bathroom, I think so so for me, I didn't I didn't even think about it. It For Me. It's just it's such a part of the game these days. Back in the days obviously it didn't used to be. I mean, I remember talking to my my granddad or Torben will rake who used to play it back in the 50s and 60s and they're like we never went to the bathroom it didn't wasn't part of the game. But it is now and I didn't put too much into it to be honest, but what are you gonna do if you really needed to go change his thought?

Emily Webley-Smith  14:49

I don't think the bathroom break was as much of an issue as how long he was taking. Like we were I was on my nephew's one and I was on nephew watching duty and I could literally read a story, like a small story book in between points to him where it was taking so long. And I kept still and I watched, which is so unusual for me to be able to sit down and watch five sets. But it was actually I was thinking to myself, it's tough if you're returning to like, stay active between because you don't want to waste, I guess over five sets, you don't wanna waste too much energy jumping around, which is probably what I would do, like just jump around a lot to keep moving. And it wasn't that warm. I just felt that the ball bouncing and the time that Novak takes and I do think he gets a bit of a bad rap for everything else. And I thought and I don't think that he gets the respect that he deserves, and that he's so so needs and wants. But the how long he was taking. That was the only thing about the final that that I felt that he was really, really pushing it.

Freddie Nielsen  15:55

He does what he is allowed to do. So he pushes whatever consequences allow him to,

Emily Webley-Smith  15:59

But he got caught and it like went well into the match. And it was already happening. And even between first and second serves. I don't know why they can't make a rule about that. Because between first and second serve, I mean, so it's tedious just waiting for him to serve.

Freddie Nielsen  16:12

Oh, absolutely. But But I don't think you can put that on. I mean, I don't think you put it on Novak he just plays to the limits that that's made for him and with, if he doesn't have any consequences, then he won't, he's not gonna do anything for the greater good of the game, you know, he's gonna do whatever the best for him to win the match. And I mean to tennis has pretty vague rules always has and now they have the shot clock, but they're still a pretty vague vague about where they started and whatnot. And if they do it wrong, the player will give him abuse, like we saw with no recognition

Emily Webley-Smith  16:47

that it was going to the towel that was taking the length of time was actually irrelevant, because the time that he took to go to the towel and get to the baseline was fine. The how many times he then bounced the ball on certain points. And it wasn't all the time. But he was taking like they showed some stat and he was taking like 20% longer in the final then he took the whole rest of the tournament.

Freddie Nielsen  17:09

Yeah. And if he if he wants to go to the towel, then that's his choice. If he wants to stand at the baseline for 10 seconds looking into the sky, that's his choice. He has His time. Yeah, there's no rule that says that he needs to be allowed to go to his towel. There's no rule in the book of tennis saying you must be allowed time to go to your to, to your towel. Just like there's no rule that says you have to go into seconds or that you can't stand and just stare into the crowd and until you decide to serve. So I mean, that's it's unlucky that it comes to that. But hey, that's that's the way it is. And with regards to the bathroom break, I think I think what's bad for us is viewership I think, Okay, maybe not many people are going to leave Wimbledon final that's so in interesting, but the fact of the matter is, when there is a toilet break of this length or an injury time you it is just the fact that the viewership goes down, people don't want to watch it, you know, it's not great TV,

Daniel Kiernan  18:06

Gaby why time management, you know, as tennis players, tennis coaches, I guess we know that, that somebody's listening, so what's the advantage in taking so much time,

Gaby Dabrowski  18:16

Um, generally it can disrupt the momentum of the match. So when the flow of a match is going in one direction, then sometimes taking extra time can neutralize that, and sometimes flip it back towards you. So that's why I think over the last few years, the rules have been adjusted to actually having a time limit of the bathroom break and having a visible shot clock that you can see count down. Because we have had, you know, several players who notoriously have abused those, I don't know if you want to call them privileges, but you know, just the things that, you know, you have to take time in between points to rest and sometimes you have to go to the bathroom, but then sometimes people take too much time doing both of those things. So we needed to make an adjustment. But yeah, I mean, I've played my fair share against players who abuse the rule and players who use it fairly. So it's not like just because someone's taking a bathroom break means that they're abusing the rule or just because they're taking a long time means they're abusing you know the time in between points. It's just when you see a pattern over many tournaments or many matches or within a match that then it can become a little bit suspect.

Daniel Kiernan  19:31

Because he has and this will be my last thing on on Novak he has become the master of control of the mind you know, tolerance of the mind the the ability to make clear decisions under immense pressure, you know, and I think it was it was looking inevitable, I think wasn't it in the in the second set tie break? Here he goes. He's won his last 14 tie breaks in Grand Slams you You know, the last one he lost was in Australia to Enzo Coushard and we know the start again, he made zero errors in like seven tie breaks. You know, Alcatraz went for the backhand down the line one love down a year thought young, young decision. And then out of nowhere Novak, at three, two, when for a drop shot made that mistake when you said the two backhand errors. However, that is a one off for Novak, you know, and obviously he missed the drive volley that maybe should have gone crosscore to go two love up in the 5th. But then you jump across to these other players that are in the top 30 in the world. And one of the big moments for me, and I love Davidovich, and one because he does train and he's been at the academy, but he trains in the area here in Spain, but he's very exciting. But at eight all in the fifth set tie break against Rune he's he's ahead he's been at five ahead. He pulls out the drop shot. And when he was asked not the drop shot, sorry he pulled out the underarm serve and and when he was asked about this Freddie afterwards, he said, I just shit myself. I didn't want to play the point. Yeah. And so completely and we're talking about a guy here 25 Maybe even higher in the world. You know who's won ATP events? I mean, the guy the guy's a superstar you know,

Emily Webley-Smith  21:25

Who looks like that never happens as well who looks like he would never be the person that would say that. Yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  21:29

I mean, he any and basically he's just Yeah, completely petrified but didn't want to play the point didn't know what to do just freaked out hit a hit an underarm serve. And you know, before you know it, I've gone so the skill is is matter for these guys. And obviously Alcaraz is seems to be going along. Along that that same way. But we can't underestimate Freddie how, how much of a skill that is to be able to tolerate all the emotions and take everything in. That happens on the court,

Freddie Nielsen  22:00

of course. And that's also why I felt it was a seismic match for Alcaraz there are a few moments in this match where I was thinking, Okay, let's see. And if I were a betting man, there would have put a lot of money on Novak to just comfortably roll, roll it over the goal line, but Carlos just stepped it up a notch and found a different level and look very composed. And when he started that out, I was just laughing. Like, what was that game? What was that game? It was too good. So But back to Davidovich as well, how good of him to just come out and say that because it was great. Yeah. You can't really explain. He'd say he has a history of doing that kind of stuff at weird times. But this one was no spin. It was a high bouncer and he played serve and volley on it. I literally yelled in my living room. They're like in my watching in my kitchen. What was that, he lead that entire breaker, you know, he's up six, two, he was up eight, five, playing really good. Really, really good. And then that happened. I could not believe what I saw.

Emily Webley-Smith  23:07

They showed back some previous interview with Juan Carlos Ferraro, about coaching Alcaraz. And he said that he doesn't just embrace the challenge like all champions do. He actually looks forward to those moments and is excited by those moments. And that's genuinely what it looked like. And you didn't think that after that first set, I was thinking because he looks like Ons look back to the day before

Daniel Kiernan  23:37

He had the French she had the French hanging over him as well. Yeah.

Emily Webley-Smith  23:42

And I was so impressed that he that they said that 26 minute game also had more points in it than the whole of the first set. So that first set with how he looked and kinda looked a bit frozen, kinda looked like he was getting outplayed the magnitude of the situation. I was like, well, at least he's human, because it kind of showed that even a Wimbledon final for him was a big deal. And then the mental strength to actually just start to produce the level that he started to. And then in the biggest moments that that embracing the challenge, but actually you could see he was relishing it every little tough moment. He just relished it and it was it was amazing to watch that.

Freddie Nielsen  24:26

And I think from from maybe I'm just projecting my own feelings onto Novak, but I genuinely felt like Novak was surprised and like, what is happening here? I did not expect this supposed to be rolling. This guy is supposed to throw in the towel basically and not come up with this. And to me, I think Novak looked a little bit like, bewildered like, like he didn't know what to do. And to me that was the biggest compliment to Carlos.

Daniel Kiernan  24:55

Well, let's hope hope we see a few more of those man catches Alcaraz, Djokovic before Novak heads off in three years time is my prediction. So there's plenty. There's still plenty opportunities to see it. But moving in, I'm going to kind of gloss over the Dark Horse picks a little bit guys on the men's side. Because there's not a lot to write home about to be honest. I mean, I do. Remember, we were very excited about Sebastian Korda who was very much a first hurdle faller. Which Yeah, he doesn't eat, he's got game. But again, we go back to the mind, he obviously hasn't put it all together yet, you know, will he? We don't know. We never know what's going on behind the scenes. But that was that was certainly very interesting to see. But I think there was some real feel good stories on the men's side as well. And I've got to start off Gaby with Chris Eubanks. Because there's certain people in the world that do put a smile on everyone's face, you know, they just have a, they have a way about them, is very, very likable, very articulate, speaks very well, you know, just has a has the image that we want in the sport, you know, and I think, attract new people to the sport. And obviously, he put some serious results together, you know, taking out some some top players, and actually getting getting close to potentially start to do it again after after winning the first set against Medvedev and going to all the way to the fifth set against Medvedev, if you've come across Chris, is he someone that you've, you've seen over the years on the tour? And I guess just to talk us through that story of someone who is hanging around 150, 200 in the world, and then all of a sudden, this breakthrough year does happen, you know, and it's happened for him. And he's now I believe, 31 in the world.

Gaby Dabrowski  26:57

No its incredible. He's a really nice guy. I don't know him very well, personally, I've seen him around. And I have a friend who is good friends with him. And she speaks really highly of him. So I think everything that we're witnessing about him is true and his character and how he carries himself and how he speaks. I think it's wonderful, because it also shows that there are no rules in tennis about when success comes. And I love that because I think a lot of the times the tennis media and Federation's everyone is always just obsessed with the up and comers that are a teenager. And I think it is so beautiful when players who have floated in that sort of 150 200 250 range, have that breakthrough, become more financially stable, create a different life for themselves have these amazing results and experiences. And there's really something to be said for that resiliency, because he probably, I mean, maybe we could get him on the podcast one day, because it would be great to kind of pick his brain about his story and like, what was the difference for him, but I'm assuming that he would have flown under the radar for a long time, probably not had a lot of Federation support. So to see him have the success, kind of going it alone with just his own group of people around him. Like that's really cool. And I would love to hear more about it.

Daniel Kiernan  28:24

The bit I have heard because he has spoken out about it. And it would be great to get him on and pick at it even more. But I think a lot of stories come to this is management of expectation. I always talk about it. Andy Murray, Andy Murray 2012 losing to Roger Federer crying his eyes out in front of the world property is not those pretend the tears that jurkovich did after the final I don't know what they were. But you know, property is you know, he felt it, you know, and, and we all felt it for him. And he said that was the day that he accepted. I might never win a Grand Slam. And and by accepting that, a month later, he won and he won. He won Wimbledon Olympics. A few months later, he went and won the US Open. 12 months later, he went on and won Wimbledon. Just taking taking that on that that's an extreme example at the top level. But Chris Eubanks said a similar thing, I started to start to think actually, this is probably not for me, I'm probably not going to be making my million through being a player. So let's take the opportunity to go and work for the Tennis Channel that came up, go and work in the media. I still play my tennis, but I withdraw a little bit of that expectation a little bit of that stress. And he puts it down to that you that it was there was a mindset shift. You know of just saying okay, I'm still going to try my best but without without the expectation and probably my favorite ever quote on these almost 200 episodes is and it was actually Iga's, sports psychologists that said, you know, that's what they talk about all the time, high standards, low expectations. And they're two very different things. And I think if I said life we can we can live to a high standard, but we can reduce our expectations. I think it goes, it goes a long, long way. And I think that seems to certainly, Chris credits that, to that to that change of mentality.

Freddie Nielsen  30:28

Oh, absolutely. And by the way, with, I just have to say he's really good on TV, too. He's really good. Also, one thing is that he's really committed from a tennis point of view. That's the one thing that kicks into me. He's very committed to our game style. Yes, like you you would see him play the same way in Knoxville challenge as you would in Wimbledon quarterfinal. So I think there's that I think there's a lesson to be learned with that and in to find your strengths and weaknesses and try to be the best version of yourself always. And then you're gonna get some good results and be, be really ruthless in that and really, really disciplined in staying true to yourself and then good things might come your way.

Daniel Kiernan  31:05

My next couple of mentions on the men's side, I have to mention two Brits and the first one is Liam Broady. And I mean, Jesus what I mean, Liam, I know he's not that old Liam he's only 29 but it he's been out there for a long time. And when it feels like he's been playing since he was 14, you know, he was so it was such an early almost adopter to playing on the to be Casper Ruud who will number four, you know, and to do that in your home slam second round, bad scheduling. I know you can't, can't always blame blame things like that are but I honestly believe if he'd got 24 hours more, that he would have had a chance against Shapovalov. And I think he ran out of steam. You know, and you know from that from the excitement the night before. So a big shout out to Broads because he's he's doing it right. He's putting it in. And and then I have to move and I come come about to see the sad faces, girls, because I'm about to mention Mr. Murray. And you know for a while there, it was looking. And if you again, once again, if he got through that match, the draw was opening for him. And that's what he was. there for, I watched the interview afterwards where he just was heartbroken the next day. And he couldn't say he couldn't say that he was continuing he couldn't he couldn't bring himself to let everyone know that they will see him at Wimbledon next year. I really hope that we will. But it feels like it's coming a little bit closer Em

Emily Webley-Smith  32:39

I don't know about that. I just think it hurts. Andy so much when he loses those matches. I actually said yesterday when we were watching the Barbara Strycova interview after she won the doubles, and then said that was her last Wimbledon and that she was retiring after US Open. I said to my family, I said I wonder how Andy eventually will retire like this time, like how it will actually happen. Because I could just see him just one day just not being able to want that hurt again, and just walking off the court one day and then not wanting to, it's going to be one thing or the other. And I just there's so few people that have this fairytale ending, like Barbara had yesterday with Wimbledon that and Andy deserves it so much. But I don't know, I just I just feel that. I think he's definitely got another Wimbledon in him. And I don't think he would have worked as hard as he has to get to this point within the rankings if he didn't. If he didn't believe that. Like we said on the previous podcast, I actually think like you I think he went into the tournament thinking that he could do very, very well in it. The draw wasn't that great for him. And still.

Freddie Nielsen  34:01

Oh, I disagree. Really?

Daniel Kiernan  34:03

He had a great draw.

Freddie Nielsen  34:04

I thought he had a great draw.

Emily Webley-Smith  34:07

After that one he might have done.

Daniel Kiernan  34:08

No, I mean, as Kieran would tell us Tsitsipas in love is not Tsitsipas out of love. It actually I always think this as well. Not that it's tennis players. You want to watch the match before. But I was watching Dominic Thiem play against Tsitsipas in the fifth set thinking come on dominate cat, you know, because I think I think Andy takes out Thiem, you know, I think Tsitsipas has got a higher ceiling of the level that he could play. And actually he did produce some good tennis in the end of that match that I'm not sure that team would have. But yeah, I think the draw was there for

Emily Webley-Smith  34:47

Gabs and I went to watch we just finished practicing and Andy was warming up for the second part of his match that next day. And we went to watch that a little bit of that. Firstly because we were interested had but then secondly, I wanted to see how he was moving. And he seemed fine. But we don't know what what happened overnight and what they did and what treatment they did and everything else after he slept at the end the night before. But I was in two minds as to whether if they'd continued on that night, whether it actually would have been better for him, I can't imagine it was just under the weight of the whole talk about expectation to weight of the whole country on you.

Daniel Kiernan  35:24

My last player that I have to mention, and again, I going back to our Sunday barbecue, there was a lot of friends of friends that were there, and the women that were around the table talking and this young man was mentioned a lot. Mateo Berrettini they were sharing pictures and no look at it. That was the interest. That was the interest to get going, I think into the event. And it was only two weeks earlier that he walked off court in tears look like he was you know, in all sorts. And I just think again, that's a great example of how things can turn fast in this sport, you know, he's in a really bad place he comes out he beats Sonego first round, he beats De Minaur second round and beats Zverev third round and then he's set up against Alcaraz you know, whereas two weeks earlier you were thinking is he even going to play again this year. And I think it's it's a story I just want to mention because I do think we need to all remember that you know tennis players get get down you know that we have bad weeks we have bad bad moments, but you're only only one one good match away from turning around often for it

Freddie Nielsen  36:36

100% And then the other side is also how tough it is to maintain your level once you get up there there's no easy way it's not just like you make it to the top 10 And you just stay there for good. It also shows how good all the other guys the last few years that you mentioned and Andy, Roger Rafa, Novak, their consistency is you the more you see how difficult it is for other people. The more you see how well they did it for so many years. But you're very right maybe this is to turn around for him. I'm still a little concerned on his behalf he does seem to be very injury prone. Brass was a great surface for him. His qualities definitely come out to play very well on that surface. Having also been a finalist previously on the little more grueling surfaces of hardcore I don't know I don't feel like there's that much momentum going for Berrettini at the moment and I would I would need to see a little more consistency for longer periods of time before I get back in the in the corner of him because it's like it's been a long time. Since this we've seen anything of significance from his side I feel

Emily Webley-Smith  37:45

I'm just in his corner. He's beautiful. I can't concentrate. I'm with I'm with the women at the barbecue

Daniel Kiernan  37:54

Gaby's not having it in terms of the men's doubles, we have to mention it. Mektic Pavic was my big pick at the start. I still do believe that they were real contenders. They lost five in the third I think in the third round but saw happy that Neal Skupski and Wes Koolhof you know they have been the best they've been the best team for the last 18 months but they hadn't won a Grand Slam you know so for them to get over the line and to see that ecstasy that they that they experienced at the end you know on Centre Court was was really incredible.

Freddie Nielsen  38:35

Yeah, absolutely. And you always want to see as a neutral fan I think it's always nice to see a local guy doing well and having having known most of the doubles guys and know Neal fairly well and Wes as well. They're really good guys and easy to get behind. Very easy to root for the Skupskis very lovely people and I've always gotten along with them well, so that was a very positive story. Definitely.

Daniel Kiernan  38:59

But what I do know is it was the first Brit since 2012 to win the men's doubles, which was certain Johnny Marray and Freddie Nielsen. How did that bring back you know, when you watch that does it does it bring back the feelings and

Freddie Nielsen  39:18

When I watched that particular match No, but when I watch a Wimbledon final it comes back so all the other men's doubles finals. I've seen it come back a little bit. This particular match No, not really. Also, I think honestly, it was a different vibe for me. Wimbledon doubles has always I'm not just saying this because we're talking about now and I had had a little bit of success. But to me it always stood out in a different way and have different vibe from being best the five set matches this year would be invested three set matches and the finaI feel like we've had some epic doubles finals. They've gone back and forth fourth at five sets and you really get into it. This one felt fast. This one especially on the grass because you You don't really get into the same kind of rallies as you do on the other surfaces. It felt like there was not much there. And I think that's a shame actually really never really. Yeah, it's it's tough to build up to the kind of matches they used to be with the five set match, I think we've learned had a real positive thing going there for men's doubles. And now there's no more and it feels. Honestly, it felt like one of the ATP tour matches with the Super tiebreaker. And the third, it felt weird.

Daniel Kiernan  40:26

And how's that for timing? Mr Skupski Wimbledon champ Look at this guy. You would not believe what we've just literally literally just talked about, like the perfect time just talked about it as you've jumped on. So you were on last year's Wimbledon champion. You won the year before as Wimbledon champion, but the first time as a men's Wimbledon champion. Congratulations. How? How you doing? And how's the last couple of days been?

Neal Skupski  40:57

Yeah, you know, it's been a it's been a an amazing couple of days. Quite, very tiring, doing a lot of quite interviews and trying to reply to everybody. Yeah, it's been amazing. I know what I know what its like to win Wimbledon, like Freddie Nielsen. Now. He must have been inundated with messages. But yeah, there's no, there's no better feeling than winning your home Grand Slam. And yeah, I mean, in front of the British fans, again, our first Grand Slam in which they've been trying to do for 18 months now. Never quite believed you would ever get to that level. But yeah, it's we've done it now. And we want to do more.

Freddie Nielsen  41:40

And I used to do, I used to reply to all the messages in the middle of the night, so I wouldn't get a reply right away so I could get some breathing space.

Neal Skupski  41:47

Yeah, I've actually seen that. Yeah, I was I was going on. I was on the train back to Liverpool today. And I thought, I've got a few hours. And then I was replying to everyone. And I thought it was going well, but then I was getting replies back. Making me making me more stressful.

Daniel Kiernan  42:04

And then you haven't me asking you to come on the podcast 15 times. Apologies for that.

Neal Skupski  42:09

I'll finally give in

Freddie Nielsen  42:13

Things you do for a fellow Tiger.

Daniel Kiernan  42:16

And which fatty was just saying, Neil so the first year that Wimbledon, it was the best of three. Any any differences and experience for you guys?

Neal Skupski  42:26

Yeah, we love it. Love best of three? No, it's it's it was obviously very special to play the best of five because we don't do it on the tour ever. So it was always nice to come to Wimbledon and play the best of five. But yeah, I think it was time for all the Grand Slams to be aligned and be best to three. It's still not the same as what we do on a tour. We play obviously, match tie breaks in the third set. But yeah, I mean, me and Wesley we play with a lot of high energy from ball one and I think trying to do that for a specified match it kind of, it's tough for us, we have to kind of manage it. But now Best of three matches. It suits us perfectly. We can go straight from Ball one. And yeah, we only played we played one. We played one three set match in the quarterfinals against public second Bay, our I played a terrible first set against them. I thought we were gonna go out. But yeah, we managed to turn it around. And we obviously had a good couple of weeks.

Daniel Kiernan  43:27

And just last week, so I don't I don't want to keep you long there because it's amazing that you've jumped on with us. But how was that as a as a Brit, in on the interview after afterwards, you look shocked when you were told you know the first first Britain's 1920s to be a mixed doubles champion and a men's doubles champion on center court. You've got all your family and I know how much your family mean to you, but also what they've put in for your tennis over those years. How are you able to stay in the present moment to be able to produce the level of tennis that you boys did in that final? And at any point did you catch yourself starting to think shit? We could be winning Wimbledon? And if you did, how did you bring yourself back in?

Neal Skupski  44:14

Yeah, it's very difficult because we I mean, we played them boys a couple of times before the quarterfinal stage of the French in the last two years. We've lost them twice. thought was gonna be a very difficult match for us. But I just we had a feeling we had been playing well and our level was getting better each round. We'd played well but not brought us together at the same time for every match. And I think the US Open from last year the final definitely helped us because I think we both went in a little bit nervous especially myself in my first Grand Slam. Wesley had done it before. Couple of years before with Mektic losing out to I think Mate and Bruno. So yeah, we the team was a lot calmer going into that match. We had a day off We were able to scout and then yeah, we started we knew we wanted to kind of get a good good start and a match we knew Granollers and Zeballos, they start very well. And we wanted to attack them with good energy. And I think the second game of the match, I got the opportunity to kind of hit Granollers with a smash and a thought. It's got to be done. So I went, Oh, actually, I don't normally do that. But it's a Wimbledon final. And I thought it's, it's something that has to be done. I mean, I think they went for me him in the BIOS over the next two games four or five times. Went back Fenn straight after I hit him. So that I that helped, I think it got it into their heads. And then talking about when I thought after we broke in the first set, I was thinking, here we go. This is this is a chance now and them guys, obviously the very good and the very experienced, so you couldn't you can't like kind of let anything slip. So yeah. At the change of ends before you served for it. What did you did you think then, what were you thinking then, All I was thinking about was my first serve was going

Emily Webley-Smith  46:15

To just stay in it. You didn't say, Oh, I'm serving woman, I

Neal Skupski  46:19

Didn't look at the box at all. I was just trying to stay in the moment with Wesley keep pretending it was just another game. I was very nervous. But once that first I went in, and Zeballos missed a Little return a little bit and where to put the ball away. That's when it kind of settled down. And I thought, here we go. Next point. And yet we got to 14 and it was like this is it. And then yeah, after that I was I was on my back, I was on the floor. And Wesley was jumping around like a monkey. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  46:53

It was it was an amazing, it was amazing. Amazing to watch. And, and I have to say, all throughout the match. I was I was watching Ken, your brother. And but you know, why did he work? Backwards? No, but look younger. But more what I was watching actually, as obviously, you know that, that I'm coaching on the tour now and you you do impact with how you are at the side of the court. It's interesting. You said you didn't look at the box at that point. But I thought Ken looked really assured and calm all match more so than the rest of the box. And arguably more than I've seen him before. And I felt he had just got goosebumps thinking about it. You know, and for those listening, Ken, Ken was my roommate at college, you know, so we go back a long way and you know, go back a long way with Team Skupski. But it in terms of yeah, it just it just felt like he had a real confidence in you guys. I thought he got the vibe spot on. Actually, you know, even, you know, in a couple of times. I don't know if you were looking at him, but he just gave he seemed to just give you some real assured looks. Yeah, it's all it's all good. You know, this is it's all going well, maybe he would break you were returning for break point. You know, there didn't seem to be too much tension and too much. Come on, you know, how does as a player in those moments, how much are you picking up from the box? In that in those situations? Are you feeling what what's going on there? Or? I know you said serving for you. You just didn't even lock you just in your bubble with Wes

Neal Skupski  48:39

Yeah, I mean, look at the change. You've entered in a lock. But throughout that game, I was looking after every point because I needed something I wanted something back from them. It's funny that you said that because thinking about it now. Ken's normally a bit more animated with his fist bumps. And yeah, he wasn't really showing much emotion to me. Which kind of may help may have helped me in that moment. Rob was a little bit more animated with like fist pumps, for Wesley. But yeah, I think I think Ken was after the final, you obviously spoke we all spoke about the match and everything. And he had, he was saying he had full confidence. He just knew that we were in a good space. And yeah, he had full full belief in our abilities. And we had connected right at the right time. And he just thought this is a tournament for them. Because he knows I get quite animated on the court. But sometimes it doesn't take me long to kind of if Ken does something wrong in the box to kind of for me to switch. We still have that but the brotherly kind of have a snack and yeah, we love each other. But sometimes it can just switch pretty quickly. Like we used to when we were playing in the very young days. But yeah, his demeanor was great in that way. hopes and hopefully he keeps it like that in the future.

Daniel Kiernan  50:05

And then my very very last thing who won the race for the next 007 for bond you or Wes because you both looked super dapper and

Neal Skupski  50:19

Yeah I mean. I think we both looked pretty good. I mean, if you've looked on the pictures though, Wes' his hair is out of place in the back of his head on the picture. So have a look at that. But yeah, I mean, it was obviously an amazing night. Very special to obviously be with all the champions Vondrousova And obviously Alcaraz just got to say I mean them two they were amazing after the after picking up the trophies, they were taking photos and signing autographs for most of the night after, they could have easily have gotten in a car like 1am and just left so it was nice for them to kind of stick around and it shows what two champions they are.

Daniel Kiernan  50:57

Brilliant Neil Wimbledon champion, mate. No one will ever take that away from you. And thanks so much for for jumping on and speaking. And I'll see you see you in a couple of weeks somewhere. I saw you on the list for Hamburg.

Neal Skupski  51:14

Not playing Hamburg.

Daniel Kiernan  51:15

Gotcha. That's good news for us. I'd hoped that you might not. All right. Enjoy. Enjoy. Take careYeah, well that was good. I wouldn't expect how bizarre was that timing.

Freddie Nielsen  51:30

So when I believe that's why I thought it was fake. I thought you were doing it for that. You'd like to

Daniel Kiernan  51:37

Oh, really? That was that's completely bizarre. That's not wasn't expected to come on at all.

Freddie Nielsen  51:45

It actually was thinking wow, he's doing a great job here. Why don't you do something that's not happening.

Daniel Kiernan  51:55

Let's see if I can do the same for Gordon. He just appears then then I'm giving up I'm just it's magic if that happens with Gordon, but I want to I want to jump in. Now before we jump into the women's singles we I want to jump into the juniors and also the women's women's doubles. But a topic that I find fascinating and when you look at it and first I have to mention the Brits because I think the Brits had a great event obviously Neil, Neil winning winning the men's doubles. Henry Searle wonthe one the boys singles. You know that we then had Hannah Klugman and Isabel Lacy made the final of the of the girls doubles. Then Gordon Reid Alfie Hewett winning the winning the wheelchair event you know, but the Czech Republic just just seem to just bring so many players to the forefront in in all the different levels and just I know we're gonna get on to the women's singles in a minute where we know we know how that went. But in the final of the boys doubles. Sorry winner of the boys doubles was it was Jakob Philippe from Czech Republic. The in the final of the girls singles was Bartacova from Czech Republic girls doubles winners, cover cover and Samsonov are from the Czech Republic. It's like just Czech Republic. And then we got the women's doubles winner and Strycova Czech Republic women's semifinals doubles Noskova. It's like it's just unbelievable. That they are just producing player after player after player after player and and when we when we do get on to Vondrousova. She's the number nine check player right now. Or was before the rankings have changed then she's winning Wimbledon. So Gaby, what's the secret?

Gaby Dabrowski  53:51

Well, I think for them now it's kind of like a cycle. Like they're on the hamster wheel. And they've been on the hamster wheel for so long. And they just keep generating these players. But one thing I do know is all the Czech players fundamentals are incredibly strong. I even remember when my dad was coaching me when I was young, he was trying to coach me off of Czech tennis textbooks. And so I think they just have this unbelievable base. They're a small country, I think their access to tennis courts for being such a small country is probably unmatched. I think Emily gave the stat earlier where you had like three different players from the same club having success. And I don't know it's it's so special. Like, I wish we had that in Canada. I think to become that kind of tennis nation. It will take many many many years. This is just phenomenal. I mean I'm so impressed like they should be teaching everyone else what to do so

Daniel Kiernan  55:06

Maybe but maybe yes maybe no because it also strikes me that humility is at the heart of it. Like even if we take their humble yeah you know unbelievably so so if we even take Vondrousova she's was no sponsor not sponsored you know unseeded one of my coaches actually was her hitting partner at Wimbledon and eat and he hit with Ons before the final. And he actually said today he thinks it was a big mistake because she hit on Centre Court and she was unbelievably stressed walking on to Centre Court and she was actually wearing all black she'd she'd like she was freaking out she'd forgotten about the all white rule. It was all quite stressed. He said that there was the press had found out so when they walked on Centre Court there was loads of press there. Whereas Vondrousova was on the far court and away from everybody, you know, before the before the final, and it almost feels like it is such a humble way that they go about their business and then just just turn up on the court. So I guess probably the last thing they want to be doing is necessarily being put on to put onto a place where a pedestal where where people start to shoot for them. I think they they're way is almost to go unnoticed.

Emily Webley-Smith  56:31

I don't think they've got I think the reason that that or that humble is because there's always someone better than them. And worse than ever around. There's just so many players that they haven't gotten. They haven't got a chance not to be humble, because it's just like I was saying like in that in that particular club, she said Muchova, kajioka and vondrousova are from the same club. Like that's crazy, absolutely crazy to produce that level of players from the same club. And I think what Gab said with the fundamentals, I mean, you could pick it, they all, they all have good feet. They've all got great backhands. They all can volley. With all court games, they all play doubles, from a young age, every single tournament that I've been out from ITF, all the way up. There are Czech girls and singles and doubles, all over the place. And they produce great juniors and then those juniors kick on through at every level. And just that that strength in numbers, I think I said on one of the last podcast, I played the 125k replacement event for US quallies during COVID That year, and it was played at two of the big Czech clubs in Prague. And along that one corridor in one of those tennis centers about 100 meters corridor. And on either either side of the wall, you've just got check stars, check tennis players, photos, all the way down. Champions. And the history obviously is is speaks for itself. And that creates the legacy that that creates, and that's very hard to build. If you're a new country, you can't copy that. But what you can copy is the accessibility that tennis is a very affordable sport in Czech. And they don't have any better weather than a lot of European countries they're in they're on indoor fast courts normally very fast in the winter, and they're on outdoor red clay in the summer. All of them love to compete and they're all They're all pretty good athletes.

Daniel Kiernan  58:33

And in terms of because I know Jan Kovic I think it was that 1973 Wimbledon champion was Sat Sat in the box during during the final, you know, who I believe is also from that club? Yeah, you know, and they were interviewing him on the BBC. Martina Navratilova was also interviewed and talking about this and that, that came up about how accessible it is how how affordable it is, it's a sport that you can play. So I guess the question that's been on my lips is, how is it affordable? How are they able to make it affordable? When it is like you said, because my argument is often in Spain, it's affordable because you play outside all year. Yeah, nice weather. So you've got loads of thoughts and but I think it's not so

Emily Webley-Smith  59:20

In the tournaments that I've played that the indoor check tournaments. On the indoor tennis centers are not fancy. There's two or three courts in clubs, and I've played in all sorts of small cities across small towns in places which aren't even towns or cities. They've still got two or three indoor courts in little clubs, or the whole way across. And when Jan Kodos was interviewed outside Wimbledon, outside the grounds and then Navratilova in the studio, the two things they both picked out was that accessibility with the funding going into clubs, not from the Federation for the players, and then Secondary to that was good coaching and good coaching from a young age, which you see, as Gaby said, from textbooks, but you see it from junior coaches all the way up to the coaches that are on the tour with their technical, and the mental and the physical and the tactical knowledge.

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:18

I smell a guest, I smell a guest. So that's, leave it with me and watch this space, but I'm going to try and get someone, someone who is in the know as knowledgeable as you guys have been. It's now normalized, right? You know, you. There's so many, there's so many Czech players that when you play tennis, we say it all the time, if you can see it, you can be it, you know, and that's and that's what it is in their country now. So that's the way that

Freddie Nielsen  1:00:46

We come to the culture. Why is Denmark so good at badminton, for example. I don't know. Sometimes it just happens to be like that. And we can create badminton players unlike any other European country and can compete with the Asians and for some reason it's tennis in the Czech Republic and fairplay too, well done. It's very impressive.

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:05

Now, we discussed what a dark horse was. Last time. We discussed it guys in the dark horse. The benchmark dark horse was Vondrousova a grand slam finalist. She's a dark horse. Nobody. She wasn't on any of our lips come on.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:01:29

Wasn't Ons on mine.

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:31

Ons has made three out of the last five Grand Slam finals.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:01:35

Yeah, but it wasn't on. So we didn't I say on so she was my second category because we had three categories.

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:41

She's part of the big four Emily. So if we allowed it to be it's blue from the Big Three to the big four. She's made in the last five Grand Slam finals. You know, we got to get real here with Ons. But in terms in terms of that, you know, not none of us saw it coming. Nobody mentioned Vondrousova. She's gone on this incredible, incredible run obviously ons. We'll get to onzie in a minute. But brilliant caveat. I mean, amazing. She, she again, the pressure came in the final and no problem. Just Just tuck tuck a win almost without without any fuss just got a done, you know, shook hands. And you know, I'm a Wimbledon champion.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:02:26

It's crazy. I mean, she had the same demeanor when she played Ash Barty. In the Roland Garros final two, which is cool as a cucumber. And I feel like in that match if Ons had kept her cool and played a little bit better. I don't think Marketa would have changed her demeanor at all. Almost it was like win or lose. She was just going to have this calmness about her. And I remember, like messaging Emily being like, how she's so chill, but I mean, Ems, you said that. It's it's almost to chill sometimes. But in that final against Ons, who was kind of getting in her own way. It was the right vibe to have, I think,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:03:06

I think again, so I meant what I meant with that too chill was in the time before she was injured this time. So leading up to that surgery. There were certainly times when she wasn't trying 100% in in matches, and she would switch off or just couldn't, wasn't there on the court where she was so chilled. And there was you can even have moments within matches where she was like that as well, where she just didn't look like she cared very much at certain times. Whether that that was the case or not, you don't know until you speak to her. But certainly when I played her a few two years ago, in Wimbledon doubles, there was first round there was moments like that. And Matienzo was was trying super hard on the other side. So she was very in and out in matches. And then maybe with her being out with the time that she missed with her wrist that she came back with a different perspective, because there was there was an edge there where she was concentrating and she was fully engaged. But she still kept that calmness that she had before. You

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:11

used to have that thrown at you a little bit friendlier. That's all when you

Freddie Nielsen  1:04:15

win. When you when you I heard that I was cool, calm and collected. And when I lost that they didn't give enough and I didn't put enough effort. What's the answer? The answer is if you're comfortable being with what you're out and up whatever you want, and don't give too much into what other people say it doesn't really make a big difference what other people say, as long as you're comfortable with just

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:35

Absolutely. And it's I think it's quite interesting quite often. That way brings quite a big result at some point as well, you know, because I know I know in the men's doubles this year, you've got Niessen Zelinsky they've literally like played, let's say 15 tournaments and lost first round, probably 13 to them in and around, yet yet they made final of Australian Open and they want, they want enrolled. In audits, they play a bit like that, you know, it's a bit you know, certainly nice does, you know, it's a bit looks a bit carefree it looks a bit, you know, it looks a bit sloppy at times when it's when it's off. But they're they aren't, they're committing to a big game style. And when it and when it hits it hits. Whereas I think a lot of players are just trying to grind through a match week to week to week, and then maybe never completely gone from what you were saying earlier as well for any not completely buying into an identity, you know, and then and then when the bigger moments come, then they don't have that security of falling back on their identity. So it's interesting.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:05:45

Can confirm that caring too much doesn't help.

Freddie Nielsen  1:05:52

It's not an extend to that, it's obviously also important that the people you have in your corner are behind it, so that they find peace, they can also find peace, because sometimes it's also it can be very difficult with you. If you're very comfortable with your own style, but you have somebody in your corner who wants to change that. That's also very nice. You need to have somebody to understand you. Now you mentioned doubles, it's very important that your partner understands you and take you for whatever that is. So to extend it a little bit from you being comfortable, it's also nice that your your team is comfortable and understand what you who you are and what it is you bring to the table. And obviously they know and assume that, that you do the best. What do you think is the best for you at the moment, and I've tried many times where people wanted to change me or make me be something that I'm not and it's not a very nice feeling.

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:44

The opposite of the number nine in your country. Not been a fast because someone from your country makes a Grand Slam final every two or three months is is playing to be the first ever female African Grand Slam champion and not just having a country that's expecting it but a continent that is that is expecting it and we all love Ons, you know, she's amazing for the game, you know, and for her to have the wins that she have Kvitova we spoke about Rybakina We spoke about Sabalenka we spoke about and she took them all down. And to then get to the point where it felt like she was the favorite going in. You can't even start to imagine him playing with that on your shoulders. And it doesn't seem like she's able yet to overcome that.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:07:41

No. And I really felt for her I think even around the grounds, few times always gives me a hug when she was ranked whatever she was ranked before and whatever she's ranked now and always a nice word always asked about family about all the important things. And she really is just the loveliest person. And I think it's interesting that she even for Ons, it was just too much for her and the occasion and everything that was resting on it. It almost looked like those previous battles, those three that she could get through three massive matches like that, but four was one to many. I think she looked tired. She looked she looked very anxious before going on court to give her her dues. She actually doesn't normally look like that she even if she's nervous. She's still quite smiley and bubbly and maybe had a word with someone or says hi to the security person or whatever she normally does. And she looked very nervous before going on court. So what you said about her warmup and everything and what they announced with BBC with her wearing black and hitting on Centre Court. I wonder if she planned to hit on center court or whether she was given that opportunity? Oh, just kind of asked about that one thing has that ever been allowed before it's warm up on Sunday? Well,

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:01

my understanding So Mike, again, shout out to Mike Digby who, who was hitting with Ons and hitting with for quite a lot of the championships. He texted me the night before and I said it looks like I'll probably be hitting with Ons on Centre.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:09:16

Do you think that was related to the roof?

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:18

That's what I thought. Yeah. So so I thought it was weather related? Yeah. That was was what I that was the indication that I that I got so I wonder if it was weather related and then she didn't change. So they were given that option because because the weather was so bad, because they were talking about the roof coming over where the roof did come over. You know that that was why why I think the opportunity was was was presented. I

Freddie Nielsen  1:09:54

Warmed up on a match court anyway, where you have to wear white, usually at the end letter

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:59

Did I know? Yeah, I think I think the black and white thing I think was just that just showed where her mind was that there was just she, yeah, just forgotten where she was. And we've all been at the airport when we travelling. You know, maybe not you guys, because you travel so much now, but you're like checking your passport every two minutes. And it's this, that kind of funny, that kind of funny, anxious feeling that, that we have that I think just the she just was maybe overwhelmed with the situation, the expectation that I mean, we can't imagine, can we but it's, it's it

Emily Webley-Smith  1:10:39

She started what I thought was interesting. She actually started okay. And then. Go ahead. Yeah, when she didn't go as much ahead as she thought she would. I think things unraveled so quickly that you could almost see her freeze in that moment, rather than at the beginning of the match, and her feet stopped. She's making bad decisions. She was missing from everywhere. She lost all confidence in her backhand at one point, and she was running round shots, which she wouldn't normally run around because she didn't want to hit a backhand. And Gabby and I were talking about the match quite a lot with each other as it was happening. And I do think on Vondrousova lulls you into the way that she plays. But I said before that I thought the variety that Vondrousova had wouldn't bother Ons because she knows what to do on every single shot and every single angle and touch shot and drop shot. But it did last

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:31

She lost to her twice before though. Yeah,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:11:33

I saw that with the result. But I still thought on grass and the way that Ons had been playing that she would be fine. And I think perhaps we underestimate the pressure that she's under with the with the African thing. But also in contrast to what you said about Neal's box, if you looked at her box, it was so intense. And they looked petrified and worried all the way through her husband's reaction. He was just absolutely distraught.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:05

He was past it.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:12:07

Yeah. And he looked like he felt that he got something wrong as well like that he'd maybe they messed up somewhere because he was just like, in, in disbelief almost that it was happening. But then as the match was going on, he was just like, you could see it was so clear. And I just felt for her. I just really felt for her. And I don't don't think it helps when she's interviewed. And, you know, she sort of says I will win, I will be back I will win. And perhaps that thing that you said about accepting with the expectations would help her but I think it's just because she wants it so much. And she really did want it. Want it a lot.

Freddie Nielsen  1:12:49

To me, I think I'm not stepping on anybody's toes when I say I don't think it was a particularly well played Final from a purely tennis point of view. I think the tension that Jabra was feeling was very palpable. And it felt I almost feel bad to my stomach myself, because it felt like it's so much on her shoulders, and even just her own pressure. I remember last year after she lost the final she showed the media that the background on her phone is the Wimbledon trophy. So and then when you go final and it just seemed like such an uphill battle to do the whole thing again. And then you did the second time around you made Oh, I'm already here. Actually, I have a really good chance of winning. And, by the way, keep reminding me that I'm playing for. I mean, she's basically to exaggerate a little bit. She's playing for mankind here. I mean, it's there was so much put onto her shoulders, I mean,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:13:41

Change women's sport, like exactly women's sport, like it's

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:45

But it feels that that's going to magnify until it bursts. You know, like that's three out of the last five finals. She's been in so the levels' there. You know, she was injured she went off the boil for for maybe two or three months, but she is I think we've all overlooked her a little bit as one of the four players of the last 12, 18 months. You know, she could easily find herself in New York final or find herself back in the Australian final, but it doesn't feel like and I agree with you Emily that the reaction and and the statement of his I will I will, it felt like that is just going to be now the fourth time is I'd like to think she'll call on the experience, but you'd feel that those emotions are just going to intensify until she's able to.

Freddie Nielsen  1:13:45

Exactly it was too much. And I felt bad for her and she didn't. And how could she know how to handle it? What are you going to say to that you play for, for a continent, you're playing for women, you're playing for the, for the Arabs, you're playing for everybody. And basically everybody wanted her to win and she didn't have the solutions mentally. And you could just see it, it felt bad and obviously affected tennis. And basically Vondrousova just had to be on court and not mess up, you just keep it somewhat solid.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:15:09

How many finals did Andy lose before he won his first one?

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:13

You should know that answer. But it's, I would say, five.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:15:17

Maybe she should go and speak to Andy.

Freddie Nielsen  1:15:19

But then again, what is she supposed to say? I mean, you're also she, nobody has taught her to be in that situation. She's trying to, to find the right thing to say, and she wants to show some sort of, I'm not broken, I'm gonna do it. I mean

Emily Webley-Smith  1:15:33

What was interesting is that she said, we prepare differently from how I was last year. And I'm going to be, I'm more well equipped to deal with this situation having been in this situation last year. And I have a completely different way of approaching this mentally than I did last year.

Freddie Nielsen  1:15:54

No but one thing is the words you want to say the words and you want to believe it, but you can really not. You can't really prepare for what it's like when you're actually out there. I know she's been in a match before but if

Emily Webley-Smith  1:16:04

she was different, but but she was different to the previous year in her in her demeanor, she was, but she was just so so subdued, and she couldn't even get angry. She was just,

Freddie Nielsen  1:16:15

It looked rough. It looked it was terrible to watch for my personal viewing, I didn't enjoy it at all I felt bad for her

Gaby Dabrowski  1:16:20

You just wanted to like shake her and be like, just start over. Just get it all just play your tennis your tennis is good enough to win this match. Just forget everything else.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:16:32

And she still could have after the first set if Alcaraz his reaction after his first set.

Freddie Nielsen  1:16:39

Yeah. Such a good point from Gabby, you know, try to just try to let your racket talk. And yeah, never really got to that point. So I think I'm

Gaby Dabrowski  1:16:51

better than almost anyone. So it's not exactly really your biggest strength is your shotmaking and your feel and your ability to hit any shot from anywhere on the court. You know, like, you can't say that about every player. You can't say to every player rely on your shotmaking rely on like what you can for her, So it's like she's so unique in that way.

Freddie Nielsen  1:17:11

Yeah, I totally agree with you. And that also, to me, in my opinion, it shows that might go down. She might be one of the Wimbledon champions you kind of forget about because I think more talk has been about her opponent. And she didn't in my opinion, she didn't really come up firing on all cylinders just winning this championship for this tournament final by by being a much much better player. I think the way I see it, maybe it's harsh on Vondrousova. But I think Jabeur lost it. I mean, I guess that's sport too, though. You have to take this week, but this hour as well.

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:47

I've got a choice to pick because time is time is moving on guys. But I've got one more female player to pick and there's there's lots that I can, but I can't look past Andreeva because we picked her. So I need to give us a little bit of credit, because we haven't had much during during that during this podcast. But we picked her

Freddie Nielsen  1:18:13

A quote for debit though, which was you know,

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:17

we, we absolutely did. But we we grabbed We grabbed a hold of her when she was in the first round qualifying. She made it all the way to the fourth round. She was 6-2 4-2 up on Madison keys. She didn't quite get over the line. But I think she's shown enough, Gaby to show that she's absolutely the real deal. So you know what, what's your take on? It? Is? Is she is she going to be someone that's going to come through imminently? Or is it going to be a little bit more of a slow burner, but I think there's no doubting she has the ability. She has the talent. She has the character to be at the very top of the game.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:19:00

I agree completely. If I'm invited back to the podcast, she will be my Dark Horse every time.

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:06

She won't be a dark horse for long. No.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:19:13

Again, good from everywhere on the court fundamentals super solid. So far mentally very solid to there aren't too many very obvious holes in her game when you watch her play. So yeah, I mean big things coming for her. I think

Freddie Nielsen  1:19:29

Her improvement over the last year is insane. So that's a good sign for her. And I think that I agree. I think she's here to stay. Also she keeps consistently making good results at the adult level, if you will,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:19:43

And how quickly she learned on the grass, which is not an easy surface. If you haven't played on it. She's barely played on it. And she just learned as she went along. It was unbelievable.

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:52

Same same as Alcaraz. And I'd said guys, I'd said that Gordon might be joining us And I wasn't sure you know, he's, he's a he's a busy man. But here he is. He's managed to, to jump onto a big welcome Gordon Reid. How you doing?

Gordon Reid  1:20:09

How you doing? Yeah, I'm great. Yeah. Still. Yeah, still wrapping my head around the scenes at the weekend but no, no. Yeah. Feeling good after an amazing week.

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:21

Well, that's a big smile and right and rightly so. And for me, actually, what I loved about it, I loved a lot of things about it. But the chat before Wimbledon was, is Novak Djokovic is going to win his 24th Grand Slam in Little did people know that it was gonna be Gordon Reid that won his 24th Grand Slam, as Novak then lost in the final, and just left it all clear for you to take all the headlines. So 24 grand slams, where does where does this one live up to the picture of all 24?

Gordon Reid  1:20:59

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the 18. For me and Alfie have won together as a team and the double side of things. And the first time we've won Wimbledon together, but you know, we've had a discussion. And we always say that we we think that the first Wimbledon, which was our first doubles title, grand slam together in 2016. We all say that would be really tough to beat. But I think the circumstances at the weekend there and you know, the crowd that we had, not only watching but getting so involved and supporting us and backing us all the way. Yeah, I mean, this is maybe it's either taken top spot up there, or it's definitely rivaling it because that was something that we don't get the chance to experience very often. Yeah, it feels like a very momentous moment in the future wheelchair tennis,

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:49

I get a couple of goosebump moments when I speak to guests. And that was that was a one because I sat there in the lounge. I had two TVs I had Neal's men's doubles final and had yours and Alfie's final on. And I have to say it was 10 times louder on court, one than it was on Centre Court. Like it was just, it was it was incredible, and that the atmosphere, but also the quality of tennis and the rallies that were being played and the excitement, as much as I do love Neil and I was very excited for Neil, my eyes were definitely swaying more to your side. And, you know, like, like you say, that of the future of wheelchair tennis, how you can now build on that, you know, because the the exposure, the energy, the enthusiasm for it. So what is the next step? How, how can we use this now as a real catalyst to push wheelchair tennis forward even more?

1:22:51

Yeah, well, I think that's a very important point. Because, you know, we were quite rightly all enjoy and lamenting the the atmosphere and the situation we found ourselves and unquote, one. But the last thing we want to do is for you to let it be forgotten and lose the momentum and then not have that experience again. One thing that was really promising for me was that it wasn't only British players that they had on Court One this year, wheelchair players that they had, they also had the two women's semi singles semifinals, on quarter one on Friday, which there are no British players and those matches, and I would estimate maybe four or 5000 people were in the, in the stand for those matches as well. And getting into the match and creating an atmosphere for that as well. Which for me is a big step forward because that's something we've never seen at Grand Slams or any tournaments really outside of the Paralympic games because yeah, it's natural to get our good home support for some some home players or all the slams, but for a wheelchair match to Yeah, attract that's what are the years something that's important. So, I mean, the next thing is for us is the British Open which will be in Nottingham in two weeks time. So there I think I believe the LTA are selling tickets for that one of the first times they've ticketed the event, hopefully, you know, bring some momentum and some crowds and some fans that either could or couldn't watch Wimbledon and hopefully still have a taste for tennis and wheelchair tennis and get them along for some more live action.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:23

And is that on the grass?

Gordon Reid  1:24:25

That's one hardcore. So yeah, right. Okay.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:29

Are they making a decent Centre Court for it?

Gordon Reid  1:24:32

Yeah, I believe they'll have a good Senate court set up, you know, as an LT event, so they always they always do a good job with the organization. But yeah, it's always getting people through the door which can can be a challenge. But yeah, I mean, after the the eyes of the public, so many eyes have been on on wheelchair tennis over the last week or so. And you know, it's gonna be all the same players, all the top players in the world that are down in Nottingham playing so if anyone enjoyed that and get yourself along there and watch some more action.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:03

Well, I I love watching all forms of tennis and I love watching you guys playing singles. But I have to admit, the doubles is something very special, you know, just the, the the whole visual of it the way you guys did moving and switching and the rallies go on. And obviously the way that you you playing the drop shot on Match Point, which we'll get to in a minute, you know, but the it feels like you're able to bring out so much variety and skill level. And that's why, for me, that's what was getting me more and more into it. Because the points the excitement, and it's a few slices, you hit the just went over the net. And, you know, you almost could feel like the gasping happening as the as the points were unfolding. And I don't know, obviously, you've had a lot of success singles and doubles, but especially in doubles. But would you say for for the crowd that doubles tends to bring a little bit more excitement?

1:26:01

Yeah, I think so. I mean, in terms of the type of points that we play, in wheelchair tennis, it's almost the reverse of, of able bodied tennis, you know, the doubles points tend to be shorter. Obviously, players are, are tall and on top of the net, so they're in there set correctly, and it's over quick, whereas this angle was points are longer rallies and maneuver and the court etc. And for us, it's the opposite. Because being in the chair, we're not obviously as much of a presence at the net. So reasons to love and we don't hit the ball as hard. But you know, it's easier to cover the core, obviously, as a pair. The rallies tend to be longer in doubles for us. And yeah, I think like you say, with the rallies been longer. And also with the two bounce rule that we have. That means that you find yourself in positions in the court and types of rallies that a lot of people have never seen before if they've never seen wheelchair tennis and like you say that's what makes it unique and interesting. And, you know, we know, we're not out there hitting the ball as hard as Novak or, or Alcaraz, and we're not serving down 130 bombs. But you know, I think that's where the sport can be entertaining with it. Like you see the differences in the movement and the shot making, which is unique to wheelchair tennis,

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:19

That the messaging on that is it's massively important. And I want those messages going out. But I want to take you back into the moment. You know, just to finish well, I've got you for two or three minutes. And this match felt me I speak to Bruno, you know as as as as we're going through, and it felt like this was a big match even though you and Alfie have won 17 previous you've won 23 grand slams, you lost in the final at Wimbledon last year. You know, how were you feeling before before you went on to the court that day?

1:27:54

I mean, I was feeling good. I mean me and Alfie haven't lost a match on the doubles court this year? Yeah. And, you know, last year, I struggled a lot with injuries. So last Wimbledon I think I'd had in the six weeks leading up to Wimbledon I'd had about four days of practice. So I remember, probably probably should be in play. And to be honest, it wasn't the vision, but it's difficult to turn down the opportunity to play the grass there. So you know, a very different feeling from last year. And we were excited. You know, we played our semifinal doubles on the Thursday on on court one as well, and had a great atmosphere. So we were really looking forward to it, we knew it was a challenge because it was the first time we played Oda and Nike who the Japanese pair we played in the final the first time we've come up against them as a team. And we potentially one of the opponents that we might have next year in the Paralympics and Paris. So you know, we were excited. We were looking forward to it. But it's something as I say, we're not used to that atmosphere that that crowd and first set affected me, you know, I was like you said earlier with the EU and and and your people were so into the match, if you did make a mistake or a double fault or you know, an error, then that was almost emphasized by the 1000s of people around you. And that's something that that's new for us. So, yeah, that did affect me first set, you know, luckily, I had Alfie alongside me, who has helped me helped me through and we managed to come back really well at the start of the second set and dominate the second set. And then I think from that point on, we felt the confidence we felt like we were ourselves and you know, we're playing that free flowing style of tennis, which is when we're at our best so yeah, I think it got better as the match went on, which is always a position you want to be in.

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:46

Absolutely. And what was going through your head as you were serving for it.

1:29:51

I think I was just trying to savor the moment, I mean, but not get too too distracted because I think you know, we both had a discussion and we can say that the speech after that. match. But on that match point, you know, after we'd won the match to get to match point, you know, you here on TV normally in the finals, where the crowd will get a bit louder than normal for the match point. And then we felt that on the on the court in the middle of it, but then it gets lower there. And then it gets even louder, and you think I must be it and then it gets even louder, and another level on top of that, and, you know, you're trying not to smile, you're almost trying not to cry, in that situation grew quite overwhelming. Think right, hold on a minute, come on, come on, get your head in the game when this next point. And, you know, I think for anyone that seen the match point, it was quite a long rally with, you know, a few different shots in there. And it was nice to be the guy finishing it off. And a lot of times Alfie is the guy who's hitting the showstopping and moments on match points. So it was nice to come in here with a lot of drops short protein.

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:50

And how do you under that immense pressure, that emotion? A drop shot is a special drop shot, really special drop shot? How do you how do you stay relaxed enough to find the feel for a shot like that?

1:31:06

I think it was I think I was just playing on instinct. And I was anyone that knows me knows that I love a drop shot. And yeah, I think the point was kind of going on and on and on. And I thought right, we need to mix this up here too. And grasses is difficult for us to move on to drop shots are very effective. Yeah, luckily it came off.

Daniel Kiernan  1:31:27

And then that moment, and I had a moment of gone. Oh my god, the rackets in the air. Oh my God, I hope that racket lands in the right place. Because I'm not sure if either of you have the control of where those rackets were going.

1:31:44

I mean, yeah. You know what there were not concussions after that. And everyone was saying

Daniel Kiernan  1:31:51

Gordon a big, big, big well done to yourself and Alfie, not just for not just for that, but for what you're doing for the game for wheelchair tennis, for giving us all the entertainment and bringing, bringing a sport to us all that we all need, you know, because it's unbelievably entertaining. anybody listening, get yourself down to Nottingham. And then in the next few days, and let's give these amazing athletes the support that they absolutely deserve. So a big, big well done from us all. Thanks for jumping on. All the best at the British Open and hope to catch up soon, mate. Well done.

1:32:28

Yeah, thank you very much. Thanks for having me on. And there. Yeah, thanks again to you and everyone that Soto of for the help of their Bruno over the last few years. I know that for people who may or may know or may not that this that was my last tournament with Bruno, just as he's now back in Spain and in Scotland, you know, it doesn't need to change logistically with the coaches. But I know you've been a big support with helping him and allowing him to come and, and work with me. And he's been a big impact on my career as anyone that knows him more, although he's a great guy, you know, athlete coach. So, yeah, thanks for thanks for all that and there. Yeah, I'm sure we'll, we'll meet again soon

Daniel Kiernan  1:33:06

A pleasure. And we're and we're still here and I'm taking part in that Wimbledon trophy with the Sun the sunburn that I had during the hours for Bruno while he was at Wimbledon, so I need to touch it at some point. top man Gordon, thank you. Quiz question. Before I asked you for our watch out stories for the rest of the year, so we could be editing this one out. Let's see how this goes. But before Wimbledon 2023. Now you don't have to listen carefully here. In terms of men's Wimbledon champions over the years singles 24 of the 26 letters of the alphabet had been used in the names of the Wimbledon singles champion. This year. One of the remaining two letters became a men's singles champion. So we have what is that letter? And which letter? Read Zed?

Freddie Nielsen  1:34:19

That's a different one to one from my Danish tongues as a reason for that.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:34:23

If we're in America, z and

Daniel Kiernan  1:34:25

Zed, it's Alcaraz. If we can get the get the Spanish pronunciation I can't do that. So So what letter is remaining? That we've never had a man's Wimbledon champion? What letter is leading to QQ?

Freddie Nielsen  1:34:48

Okay, I'm changing my answer to X.

Daniel Kiernan  1:34:53

Emily's sticking with

Emily Webley-Smith  1:34:54

Q Yeah, Scrabble. Gaby. I don't know.

Daniel Kiernan  1:34:59

Last minute Cheers. inch by Freddie lost him the tie. You know what? It's it's Q. So. So the next question is, which player could it be to win Wimbledon over the next few years? Just Alice that has a cue in their name. Quentin Hollis is is is one possibility. I've had to I've had to look through Freddie. And I have a couple for you. If you can't if you can't get there, so we've got the 291st ranked male player, Nicolas Sanchez Izquierdo has his just won a 25k. Last week. So Nicholas, we're we're basically a given. We've got Kyrian Jacque, from France ranked 338. What a challenge Final of a challenge in France a couple of weeks. And then actually, this one was an interesting one, the 434th ranked Ethan Quinn. Now a bit of a story with him, he actually has shown some promise because he's a Georgia Bulldog. Just come out of American University. won a challenger in Chicago last week. Won NCAA's. There's some promise. So watch this space. One for you to look out for over the next few years to see if we can get our cue as a men's Wimbledon champion. Don't.

Freddie Nielsen  1:36:31

Don't all don't the Spanish players all have like four extra names where you can be here.

Daniel Kiernan  1:36:36

That's what I thought I I scrolled that list. And it was amazing how many sets were turning up and accidentally

Emily Webley-Smith  1:36:44

Are wejust relying on your research down here. We just this is not like fat back. This is just your

Daniel Kiernan  1:36:50

This is only mine. I must start. I missed Quentin Hallis. So I might have missed another one. So anybody finder, anybody listening send in to us who who's going to be finally we're all going to be desperate for it to happen. A men's Wimbledon singles champion with a q in their name

Freddie Nielsen  1:37:11

to fit and so is it also your did you go through all the history books of finding Q or is that something you found?

Daniel Kiernan  1:37:18

This is This is fact this is fact?

Freddie Nielsen  1:37:21

It's a Dan fact or. It's a life fact?

Daniel Kiernan  1:37:23

It's it's a Twitter fact? It would definitely not be false on Twitter. So you've all got to share with me a storyline. We it's hard to believe that we're at this time of the AI somebody said I was Neal. It was Neal after when he got interviewed on center court. He said there's only maybe it was Wes Yeah, we've got there's only two tournaments left this year. Only two tournaments left this year US Open and end of year two. I was looking at the schedule going well flip and Hamburg, Washington, Toronto, Cincinnati. So it does some people feel it's coming towards the end of the year. It's not leave. No, please. It's almost it's almost just past half. Where's it? There's plenty more to come. What are our storylines to look out for over the next five months?

Freddie Nielsen  1:38:21

I will say the return of my country compatriot Caroline Wozniacki.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:38:27

Yeah, yeah.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:38:29

Forgot about that.

Daniel Kiernan  1:38:30

Where does that come from?

Freddie Nielsen  1:38:32

Where does that come from? Very good question. I can tell this my practice with her and a few a few weeks leading up to her announcement so obviously knew it was coming. But she does not do this. If she doesn't think she can compete with the best in the world. She's she's not bored. She doesn't need it. She's not doing it for shits and giggles. She's doing this because she thinks she can compete.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:38:55

What about her rheumatoid arthritis?

Freddie Nielsen  1:38:57

I think she figured out how she can manage it. And obviously she's going to be playing a much different schedule as she used to,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:39:04

and not running marathons at the same time.

Freddie Nielsen  1:39:06

Not running marathons. But I mean, she has a different mindset. She has a different brain. She's gonna make herself competitive some way or the other. Yeah. So I'm very intrigued to see how far they can get her because, like I said, she's she's not coming back just for shits and giggles. She's coming back to compete with the best in the world, mind you.

Daniel Kiernan  1:39:31

I'm not going to keep you guys any longer. Because as always, you've given more than you should. But it was it was absolutely brilliant to have you on. So a big, big thank you to all of you to everybody listening. And there's lots of tennis. It's not just about the Grand Slams. So look out for all of the tennis that's going to be going on the next the next few weeks, and we will be back in touch really soon. Thanks a lot, guys.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:39:57

Thanks. Thank you. Thanks, Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  1:39:58

I think We said it all, you know, some fascinating subjects that we went through. And I mean it, I'm getting on the call, I want to get someone from Czech tennis on the podcast because when you look into it, I think that was a great topic that we jumped into. It's fascinating. You know, the success that they continually having is really, really brilliant. The storyline there to look forward to this year, I'd forgotten all about a Caroline Wozniacki back on the court, you know, she's taken a wildcard in the US Open, is she going to be able to come back and reach the heights of her previous career, and much more for us to look forward to the same here at Control the Controllables got lots of great guests coming your way. We're edging closer to Episode 200. Working hard behind the scenes to get a big name for you. Watch this space. I can't confirm anything yet. But we're certainly going to be working to bring an extra special episode to you. There'll be more coming next week from Nigel Sears. quite brilliant coach who's been around for a long, long time. And I can't wait to get his insight to get his stories and also find out what his son in law is like. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables