#156: Matt Reid - Australia´s Unofficial Tennis Mentor

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 156 of Control the Controllables. And today's guest has been the doubles partner of Bernard Tomic, he was the traveling coach and doubles partner of Nick Kyrgios. And the regular practice buddy of Lleyton Hewett.

Matt Reid  00:31

It's an emotional roller coaster for sure. But the memories and like the stories and on tour that it just like in everyday world back home, if I had have, you know, not played tennis, I would never have experienced it that some of the experience I've had, you can't replace them for anything.

Daniel Kiernan  00:48

Matt Reed is the current number 81 in the world in doubles, he's been as high as number 60 In doubles, and 183, In singles. Anyone that is around Australian tennis will know Matt well. He has an amazing ability to get on with people. He's always been in the Davis Cup squad. He's often given up his tennis career to help others, he is a really sound bloke. He's someone that you'd want to go for a beer down the pub with. And that's what it felt like the chat felt like just sitting around in a pub having a beer, talking about his career talking about all the players that he's been around and helped. I was talking to him while he was in Miami. Not that he was there to play the tournament himself. But he's there to represent to look after all of the Aussies. And it comes through loud and clear. He's a strong Aussie it's in his blood, and He'll do whatever it takes to help Australian tennis. Another fantastic guest to have on Control the Controllables. I'm going to pass you over to Matt Reid. So Matt Reid a big welcome to Control the Controllables how're you doing?

Matt Reid  02:08

Yeah, good. Thanks. Thanks for having me. I'm pumped to be here.

Daniel Kiernan  02:12

It's great to have you on and the listeners won't see the view that I've just seen. But you're not exactly selling the tough. The tough tennis lifestyle right now is in Miami staying at a ex Premier League footballer's pad, so life seems to be pretty good for you right now.

Matt Reid  02:32

Yeah, this week is pretty good. I had a tough couple of weeks in Europe and was struggling a little bit in the cold. So I thought I'd have a few days off from come spend a few days in Miami and yeah, just live the good life for a couple days before. Before I get back to reality.

Daniel Kiernan  02:49

And will you will you have a chance to compete next week? Because obviously the event events coming to Miami next week after Indian Wells.

Matt Reid  02:57

Unfortunately I won't, I won't be playing but I will try and get down there and watch a few Aussie boys and the Brits or my mates. Try and watch them play and yeah, I'll be a bit of a hitting partner I hope if people want to hit and sacrifice their hits, but yeah, I'll I'll try and support as many Aussies as I can.

Daniel Kiernan  03:15

And I want to get into that map because it may be a little bit later because that seems to be something that you you do incredibly well. You know in the seat you seem to be often often appear in the players boxes. You know, I know that a lot of people think very highly of you. But before we get into that whole story. You did tell me you've just been to the gym. Now. I I spoke to I don't know if he is a good friend. But I spoke to Lloyds before Lloyd Glasspool all the listeners will will know Lloyd from the time he came on the podcast, I said have you got anything you got anything for me on Reidy and only said, he said honestly, I've got nothing all he does is eat sleep and and send messages to women. So so. So, so already already, you've proved them wrong by going to the gym today.

Matt Reid  04:13

Yeah, Lloyd, you know, he's full. He's full of crap or full of shit. All he does is look at himself in the mirror. He doesn't even do anything. I did. I actually kind of had a big night last night and I thought I felt pretty average this morning. So I thought oh, yeah, you know what, I probably should go get a little sweat. I feel pretty good about myself right now. And so I'm pretty pumped. I could prove Lloyd wrong.

Daniel Kiernan  04:38

There you go. Lloyd and anyone else that doubts whether Matt Reid taking taking this tennis thing seriously, you know, but before No, I think there's some there's some fun subjects that jump into you know, and I think I know our paths haven't massively crossed and all we've been in touch about you may be coming out to the academy and you're always welcome. Whenever in Europe, I can't

Matt Reid  08:56

When you're by yourself, you know, you can go in some dark places and yeah, or you do the opposite. And yeah, you're in a future in, you know, like the country somewhere and you lose with a bunch of, and then you're like, Well, where are we going tonight? You know, and then you just end up in that spiral. So it can it can be I found it really tough links and those thinking for myself. I found it really hard. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  10:27

It always hits me. And I've had I've had a few Aziz on here. Now, you know, and obviously, from traveling with with Aziz and having a lot of NATO over the years, it always hits me from Australia, you kind of can't half measure it. Because if you're going to do it, and that takes me back to that of you, obviously, you were you a very good Junior. So I guess it was probably age 15. When you started traveling the world, it's not like let's just dip my feet and go for a couple of weeks across the border to Italy, and play a couple of events. It's going, I'm off. I'm off, I'm off for months, you know, and there's something very, I think there's something quite tribal about that. That that also, I've always seen, I've always been a bit jealous of the Aussies. You know, I remember like Ill clear on the balcony or was, you know, wherever it may be that you always seem to hunt in packs, I guess for that reason. So if you can take you back to being age 15, how was that first experience of your first big overseas travel?

Matt Reid  11:32

Very tough, very, very tough. It was just completely different. I still remember really clearly went on those European like grade four fives, maybe a couple of threes. And he struggled because we went on the clay, Australia don't really have clay. So back then. We didn't know what we're doing, you know, like so. It was a lot of losing. But it was also like you said you do get a bond with the players and couple and you know, you're playing through your whole career with and have a have a great connection with great friendships like James Duckworth. He was one of the my original break friends on tour. We grew up playing since we're like nine years old together, you know, through the juniors. He was a couple years younger, but he was always very good for his age. There was just so different, you know, you're speaking different languages, because Australia's only really English, you know? And then she had traveling is definitely tough. And but we did, we did, and still do, I feel like have a very good bond between the players and we all get along. And like all support each other or always FaceTime each other. And, yeah, I just feel like we've got a great connection with everyone.

Daniel Kiernan  12:43

And, and juniors in general, are you an advocate of of the juniors, ITF juniors, because you'll have, you'll have some people and we'll have a lot of people listening to these podcasts to a tennis parents setting out on that journey with their child, you know, a teenager that's doing it a coach who's maybe doing it for the first time. And obviously, you'll have some people that go I don't play juniors, it's a load of rubbish, you should just go straight in and try and be a professional or whatever it might be. There's a lot of differing opinions. What's, what's your take on that is, is the junior ITF Junior route, a good way for players to go?

Matt Reid  13:27

I personally think so. I don't think it should be the be all end all. Like it should be more about developing as a player, you know, rather than worrying about winning the tournaments. But I do think it's a good way to to see where you're at, to see who who's coming through. And you get to experience those grand slams. And that's something that it's a big, it's a for me, it was a big motivational thing like well, I have good is how good is at walking around Wimbledon. Like, I've been to it now 10 times or something, you still get goose bumps walking around the grounds. It's the most amazing place ever, and then to be to be able to play on the grass. Like if you play the juniors and you've got that experience just going through that. I don't know. I feel like it was a big motivational thing to to play the juniors Junior slams, but I don't think winning the slams. And like as a junior is a big deal. I think it's just great to like I wouldn't focus all my energies on winning rather than more about developing as a player but also get the opportunity to play those games. Because if I look back all the guys that were doing well I'm trying to put now I think my age like Dimitrov around it. A lot of them's did go on to be pretty good players so and it's funny now you see him around the tour and it's like you're like well I remember that. Remember this remember that you still reminisce on the good old Jr days where you're all on the same hotels and with a couple of the young girls as well and it's just, it's fun. It was real fun time.

Daniel Kiernan  14:56

Like an 18 to 30 Holiday isn't it?

Matt Reid  14:59

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was just so much fun like you did everything together all of you got all of us it was I really enjoyed the juniors but I was never like I was pretty good but I did a lot better in the doubles juniors than the the singles but I loved it like I loved being around everyone it was fun.

Daniel Kiernan  15:18

For those listening Matt Reid made the final of junior Wimbledon doubles 2008 So he's he's not quite giving himself the credit that he that he should and I think with that I said I've actually felt I actually because I've been been to Wimbledon a few times a few times as a player but as a as a coach with a been there with players I've been around players that were good in the juniors so if we take Liam Broady is a great example. You know, when you when you with Liam at Wimbledon, and I was there with him and Hilts when he did well in the juniors, but then they're watching and when he played around on it, and also when he played Andy Murray in the first round, and as he's walking around the grounds that Dominic Thiem's like hey Broads how's things, you know, Kyrgios arguing in the in the locker room as they did in the juniors, nothing changes. And then when I was there, with Lloyd Lloyd Glasspool Lloyd didn't really play juniors. So when Lloyd was there, there was a difference of feeling of belonging. And that's another thing that I, I often think isn't valued high enough that our sport is that just sense of belonging in the environment. And I think if you do play juniors, and you get to the point where you're competing in the Grand Slams, ultimately, you're competing with people that are going to be going on to win grand slams, and, and there's then more chance maybe that you feel like you can do that as well, as silly as it sounds, just by feeling comfortable in the locker room. More than anything else, so to know if that's something you've experienced? Yeah,

Matt Reid  16:59

yeah. 100%. And that early on in your when you didn't, you know, you look. So when I was 1819, like even a hater. When you were in the juniors and you were around those rappers Rogers. You didn't belong. But then, as the years went on, a lot of the guys that you transitioned and they did pretty well as well. You do like when you see them there, you gravitate towards them. And it's, it's pretty cool to see like, like, Bernie Tomic was a great example for us. Like he, he killed it so early and like, it did it made you think, Well, I was playing with him from weeks ago, like I pushed him tight. Why can I do it? And that's the I think that's where as a decent Junior, you can kind of use that as a platform to push forward. Tennis, a lot of it's a belief. So if you believe that you're going to do it, you never know. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  17:55

And as you as you then transitioned, from juniors to the pros, you know, it's often a tough time because you go from being someone I guess, your Wimbledon final was on Court One

Matt Reid  18:10

No, it was I was supposed to be on Court One, but because the Roger Rafa match that marathon, can they push to whatever it was on after that to court Ones we ended up playing on the one when you walk through, I think it's 13 one of those ones? Yes.

Daniel Kiernan  18:28

And one of those one at the back with the big, big stand at the back. Yeah,

Matt Reid  18:32

yeah, it was that one. And funnily enough, I actually served for the match and Bernie is still to this day, I saw him last week and he keeps he brings it up every time and it drives me insane because it might hurt me just as much as him but he just gives it to me every time that we should have won Wimbledon. Sorry, I didn't pay to

Daniel Kiernan  18:54

Come on. Tell us about that game. Tell us about that game. When you when you guys were serving for the match. I don't have this doubles crap that you were, you know, half the time is the guy at the net that cocks up so what? What What were you what tell us about that game?

Matt Reid  19:09

I'd love to say that. I don't remember. But I remember every point is we're up 30-15 And I think 30-15 was the one where we played against the two Taiwan boys and they won a couple of slams that Yes. Yeah. And I think he returned winner on my serve to good the next one was this one broke me and that was the one I knew well done. That was on it slide a white on the grass. You know, usually it slides away in Yang, he said as high as he could Bernie's got the easy so have you ever seen net cord over the deadlift board done? And I remember just Oh, no. And then the next one return? I think I think if it was that tight, I stayed back. I'd be surviving every point stay back. Tried to hit through the net player volley win games and then yeah, the rest six, I think was 14 12 After that I was bit in my head I was done. And that still still haunts me to this day. You go past the winners and I just can't believe it inane sign up there.

Daniel Kiernan  20:10

This is this is good therapy for you Matt, getting it out there. Yeah, well,

Matt Reid  20:19

I've told a few people that story but yeah, that one hurt more than a few few losses that I've had.

Daniel Kiernan  20:24

But you know what I love about that story as well because that the consequence of the of, in my opinion in my lifetime, I think that's the greatest ever tennis match, that I've never seen the Roger Rafa. And the consequence of the greatness of that match was that for poor juniors, who was supposed to be going on Court, One got moved out and some naff court that that how can you ever see a Wimbledon court's naff but out out to a court where there was probably a few men and their dogs watching comparatively to what you would have? So that won't be written in the history books Italia people won't? People won't remember that one. Really?

Matt Reid  21:05

No, I know. I know. But that's that was one of the cool experiences though is I never saw the final until like up so we do. We'll just watch the scores the whole time. But oh my god, can you believe it? Like, what's, what's going on here and then Rafa is up two sets to love, so many rain delays. So we're like, oh my God, what's going on? And yeah, and then how he won? That was incredible. The crowd was so loud. It was with the like, yeah. And trail match. There were a couple Taipei's supporters and that was it there were no Aussies there, it was just pretty dead because the weather was pretty average that year. But that was yeah, it was unbelievably around on day four. I can only say I was there on day 14 Or day 13 I can't remember exactly that. Day 14 of that ridiculous final.

Daniel Kiernan  21:52

And as a as a professional, you moved kind of pretty seamlessly, I guess into the professional ranks. And tell me about that professional journey the last few years that the highs, the lows, the ups the downs, the challenges, the stories.

Matt Reid  22:10

Yeah its a roll it's an emotional roller coaster for sure. But the memories and like the stories and on top of that it just like the people you meet you just can't in everyday world back home if I had have stopped and you know not played for played tennis, I would never have experienced it you that some of the experience I've had i You can't replace them for anything. But the highs and lows, holy moly, that's where, where it's tough. I, if I sum my career up, like with the highs and lows and was one year, I went into Wimbledon, I just just been dumped by the girlfriend. So I was the head was all over the place. I actually had lost every match on grass leading into the I was telling my coach, I hate grass. I want to get out of here. It was my first time playing Wimbledon quallies. And I'm not going let's go play a claycourt challenge. I don't know what I was thinking, looking back, but I thought I'll let and I was actually with James Duckworth and we were saying the same thing. We couldn't win a match. And we went to quallies. I ended up qualifying. And first round I think it was I think 18 16 in the third against the Robin. And I Yeah, cramped, like I didn't prepare well, like obviously I was like I'm gonna lose. So I didn't know if I had breakfast that morning. And then what my next round, I remember, I was so sore. And usually you get a day off in between the quallies between the last round and the from the second round to the last round, you get the day off. So I was like, Oh, thank God, I can find the recover. The second round, I paid a guy who I had had his number and just you know when you go on to the court and where are these names Amir Weintraub, I used to try and practice with him all the time. Because he was a guy. Yeah, he just hated playing me. And I loved to play him. Whereas a lot of guys have my number but he's one guy who I just loved playing. And we always joked about it was the first time he had match points on me. But I ended up getting him and then from then on, I just loved it. So I played him second round. So I was pretty confident even though I was really sore. And then I had I had to play team Speed Check to I think it was a second season qualities, these top 100 time but because of the rankings and the quality is cut, had to pick Follies. And they said was it supposed to rain? You're on tomorrow? First night and I finished night like at the dark? No more second on. Oh, wow. All right. Well, there's my women of last year. That's pretty good. And I was pretty stoked to it. And I tried I tried to look at the lucky loser lists like Oh, I wonder what like the loser all the and I still remember it clearly that whole match is the first set and a half. I didn't want to point on serve to maybe six five in the second set. And then I just got lucky like complete us and broke in. And I remember thinking clearly to myself, I have been completely outplayed yet to set all How's this possible and anyway from then on I ended up going through and qualifying and I remember that was like my as a player I think that's the highest high I've had. Yeah, I just I went from getting dumped a couple weeks before to not even I didn't even know like, I remember just thinking anything that happened right now and I could not care less as soon as I call you know I remember I went out with I had some school friends rugby friends that were over in London, I went out with them for for a couple nights to celebrate it because I had a few few days where I played I was just over the moon and then it went from that to the next year where I thought I've got pretty good draw. I can't wait to qualify again. sort of had a great draw to qualify. And I was playing it was a Lawson I couldn't breathe. I had Lleyton, Tony Roche. Do other guys what are all the major players cuz that's one thing the good thing about the Aussies is why the follies run at Roehampton all the main draw players can watch like quallies. And it's unbelievable. It's the best feeling that you've got them all lined up. I couldn't breathe. I was trying to rip my shirt because I cannot breathe. I'm so nervous. And ended up I've got to a second set tiebreak. I think he served for the match and I was like I got a bath and I was playing the game Janine Janine Jagan on who's now dolphins coach and five on the Tyree served at Why'd you hit it back behind me and I've slipped over and torn ligaments, my ankle. Just remember, I tried playing on, you know, like fit, I couldn't move I was serving under here. And I ended up losing the set, obviously, because I served under him, like nine several times. And I remember getting back to the apartment for three days, I was just like, I couldn't move. I couldn't I promise. I actually had a girlfriend at the time. I promised her I'd go on holidays, that I couldn't because I had a torn ligament painful. The doctors would let me travel. And I just meant the year before think sit down feeling the ultimate high of Wimbledon to the ultimate low of I can't even go past the courts because other are I felt sick. I was like that's that was that to me hurt me the most that loss more than anything. They're the losses that, you know, if people say what are the highs and lows, I always think of that high of playing more than for the first time singles. And only time they will find singles to the ultimate low the next year bow is getting taken away from you not that I was gonna win, but like, and then having an injury as well. And especially when I saw like, I saw that draw I thought I followed for sure. That's the only time I've ever said that to myself like are so conflict coming in. Oh,

Daniel Kiernan  27:42

It's it's a great story for you to share really, because I think sorry to turn my talk my coaches cap on a little bit here. But it's on my sports psychology cap on. But it's it. I'm a massive believer around expectation. And, and the management of expectation. And look I've I've followed when I follow tennis, I'm very close to the tennis world all the time. But I I've also looked into it before I speak to spoke to you or before I speak to anybody, I like to look through some things. And I know you've been quoted as saying, there's been times when you're about to quit. And then all of a sudden out of nowhere, you've had a great week. And, and ultimately, that this does come down to the management of expectation. And you know, when when we have low expectation, super high standards, that's almost the perfect situation. You know, you can maintain your high standards, but keep this real low expectation of what's coming ahead. No, I think the bottom line is people end up I call it the people either they ever give a shit and they give a shit. They which is which is the guy that gets unbelievably tight, you know, ultimate professional, but just get so tight whenever they're playing. You've then got you've got the one that doesn't give a shit and actually then doesn't give a shit. Now from the outside that looks like a curiosity. You might tell me more on that, and are Benoit Paire. And they're dangerous on certain days. You've then got you've then got the worst nightmare is the one that doesn't give a shit and is ill disciplined and doesn't do things right but then does give a shit when they compete. So the ill disciplined and they and they get tight. And then you've got and I have to mention Federer when I talk about this is they give a shit. So they they have high standards, but then they have low expectations when they compete and it's so hard to find that balance. You know and and is that something that you've you've tried to find because even from the outside, you give off that I don't really I'm just just playing and you know, we'll see we'll see what happens. So, what's been the journey for you on that side of things? Yeah,

Matt Reid  30:06

I've tried everything. And like you said, the more a this is, if I say this, like this, my last swing, I'm, I'm done. I just enjoy the joy, the, you know, enjoy the matches, enjoy everything, I play my best. And as soon as I, you know, look at a drawer and think I should win that you kind of look to the next round. That's when I struggle. And it's happens all that like, as much as you try not to do it like it, subconsciously. It happened this year in January. So first, the first week of the year, I was playing Melbourne, we lost and I played really poor, really poor and I was already coming into the year I was struggling a little bit with motivation to play. I was like, Ah, well, that's a motivation to play motivation to compete. And then the second week, I played Sydney ATP, which is pretty strong. And I was playing with Alexei poplin. And I just remember coming into it. And I told my family I probably should come because this could be it, you know, and have probably played the best chance I played a couple of years. Um, like for me, I played I played the semi fight we made the semis beat Kabyle forever for I couldn't believe it. I was like what is going on and won two matches in one day, which I hadn't done for a long time. And so then the Aussie came around and I'm sort of consequence. And we played no notice that we played two wildcards who I know really well rinky and Christus in school paid but I'm playing with Jordan Thompson, who's a very good doubles player. So I'm confident and I'm just thinking, oh my god, like this happens it like, that sounds bad. Like, it's time for a grand slam playing a wild. Wild had to the singles players, they play majority singles, they don't really play much doubles, or something. This is a as far as what Jaws go, this is as good as I can not as good but like it's a good first round. Souza, you can play Herbert Mahieu. And they Yeah, they were too good for us. And I started in, you know, I sort of set came out with one. But then once they got to a break in the second they got confident. And as tennis players like doubles is one point here or there before you know your settle. And you start freaking out with your audit should win this one. Should we go off our ranking? And, you know, I'm 31? I should I should know better? Yeah, I went back to my all the ways that haven't worked. And that didn't Yeah, it didn't turn out too good was that we lost it's one on the third or sixth June 3, we got killed. And that's that's the way it goes. And like you said, if you were the expectation thing, I've never won a challenge on clay. And I done well on a few hard what's one thing that I was playing with Dom who was probably the best player there, in my opinion, like in doubles, he was unbelievable. And a great doubles player. And I've never played with him. So I felt a bit of pressure playing with him. But I thought you know what, like, I played well, whatever happens happens we'll play one match at a time. And he was great with me like he just took the way he talked to down as well. And we're just one match at a time. Just enjoy ourselves to tell that serve. And then for a new one the top one the tournament somehow. And yeah, like, we'll get pumped in the final but ended up getting through it.

Daniel Kiernan  33:28

We were there.

Matt Reid  33:28

I do think. Yeah, that's I remember, we had the band club up at the top. There's a bit of fun. We definitely had the support, which I didn't expect him staying. Yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  33:39

It was it was great. It was it was we absolutely loved. I mean, I loved it. But all the all the kids at the Academy cut absolutely loved that. You know, it was it was it was a great, great experience for them as well. But I think on that, is that something that Have you have you ever spoken to? Have you ever worked with a sports psychologist?

Matt Reid  33:59

I did as a youngster like, because obviously they even get forced, but I didn't buy into it at all. But then I actually for a couple years when I was posted working like helping me. I spoke to her like a life coach sort of guy. Yeah. And I kept it really quiet. Only a few people knew about it. I won't say his name because he probably doesn't. But I don't even know if that's his thing that I did speak to him once a week. And I bought in and I really it was weird. He was he was an Aussie guy and I just bought in and I loved it.

Daniel Kiernan  34:36

And did you stop it? Why do you still do it?

Matt Reid  34:39

Ah no, I actually probably should go back to it but there was a point where I was like I you know you think if you figured it out and I thought I probably don't need this but I probably should break it again. Because yeah, he was was great for me at the time. I was really really struggling with a lot of things just I felt Yeah, I was struggling because I wasn't playing much. I was traveling with Nick and I was, obviously when I played with Nick did everything. And I kind of relied on him to do, it got to the point where I almost expect, you know, you expected him to just take over and win doubles matches by himself. And he did that thing he did a lot of time. But I wasn't expecting it when when he did do it. So. And then I kind of that's when I dropped a lot in the rankings. And I wasn't practicing how to practice much in the best of times, but like, I was really not practicing much, then I was just being more of a warmer upper and that was it. And I felt like I needed a change because I remember playing in Italy at the Recanati challenger, and I had a will the top seat and we played local wildcards. And if I look back, they might may have done something, but I honestly know who they were, probably, for me the worst loss of my career. And I remember going back to hotel and just breaking down thinking I can't, but I'm done. And that was the first time I was like, I can't do this, this is too much like, and then one thing led to another and I kind of met someone. Luckily, it just, you know, things happen for a reason I, I was in Aptos, the Challenger and I met the met the guy there, he was actually helped helping someone else. And he kind of just reached out and said, If you ever need to talk and I was like, Oh yeah, I probably should. And then he actually messaged me saying, Well, how are things like a hope? Because we won the Challenger there. How's it all going next week. And then from then on, I just Yeah, continued to talk to him. And I felt I felt like he cared a lot. And I think that's the main thing. I don't think sports psychologist can be pushed upon people, I think you've got to want to need it and get to a point where or not hopefully it doesn't get to the point where I was where I was, like, just in a really bad place mentally, hopefully, that you know, you. And it doesn't work for everyone. That's the funny thing. Like, but yeah, I do think if you want it definitely seek help. For me, it helped me a lot. It really helped.

Daniel Kiernan  37:09

I look at it a little bit different now. I'm, I'm 10 years on from you. And yeah, I'm 10 years on probably similar ish stories, I think we have, you've been a higher level than me my, my ranking highest ranking was about 145 doubles. But in terms of, it's much easier now because I look, I look at it from a completely different lens, because I'm helping people. You know, it's not I'm not I was if I couldn't help myself, I mean, I stopped playing when I was 25. And I struggled so badly. But the way that I look at it now is it's like it's mental fitness. So you've got mental fitness and your physical fitness. And yeah, and actually, nobody would just not go to the gym. And then you're sure, oh, I'm not physically fit, when, of course you're not physically fit. Or the other one that I would look at is called well, with any skill, it's like you build like a big pile of snow of that skill. So if you at the gym every day, you're putting in your physical that you got a massive pile of snow. But if you if you then stop going to the gym, the pile of snow melts, and and you lose lose the skill, you lose your fitness. And for me I now on reflection look at it in a very simple manner of going well, if you don't work on your mental fitness on a daily basis, then of course, you're gonna lose your mental for some of your mental fitness. You know, and I don't think it should necessarily be differentiated between physical and mental. It's just it's another part of your body, isn't it? That you that you have to you have to work on. And I think it's the Aussie culture is quite macho. I think the sports culture is quite macho. So it's got going back years I had Tom Gullickson on the Tom Gully is an absolute legend. He was on the podcast. And he'd spoke to me about Jim Lerner who's one of the again who came on the podcast, one of the most famous sports psychologists in the world. And back in his day, it was like you absolutely basically had the choice of paying him or telling everyone and spreading the word that he was seeing a sports psychologist and it's like well I'll flipping pay because I'm not gonna let anyone know that I've gone to see the shrink. Yeah, yet yet. There's still in our male in our male world and in the in the sporting world, they still think there is that stigma attached? Whereas I think in 10, 15 years time I think we'll find sports like tennis that more and more people will actually travel with with mental fitness coaches like they do physical fitness coaches. Yeah.

Matt Reid  39:57

Now that you say like that That's probably makes more sense. Yeah, for sure. The only thing is I, I think that the player has to buy in. If the player doesn't buy in, then it's like a fitness or a coach.

Daniel Kiernan  40:12

Tennis, isn't it? Yeah.

Matt Reid  40:15

Is that fitness and coaching thing you don't think coaches, you know, right the coach, then you may as well not have him. Whereas if you think, Oh, this guy's gonna make you better. But yeah, I think it has to come from the player pushing for it.

Daniel Kiernan  40:29

I want to move into, you know, we're in a, we're in a world full of conflict, we're in a world full of polarized opinions. You know, you've got, you know, whether it's, you know, Donald Trump, whoever, obviously the the heartbreaking stuff that's happening right now in Ukraine with Putin, you know, the world feels quite fractured in terms of opinions, you strike me as someone from the outside really is, and also talking to you today. You're, you're a bridge, you're good at bridging relationships, you know, people blatantly, like spending time with you, you know, you you've traveled with Nick helping him as a coach, you've traveled with him as a doubles player. I want to I want to mention a few names. And I'd like you to just give us a quick talk through your relationship with that name. Lleyton Hewett

Matt Reid  41:30

I was lucky enough as a 18 year old that I lived 15 minutes away from him. So he would ask all Tony Roche was his coach, and I knew I've known Rochey for years. And I was so lucky, that Lleyton said can you come train for the pre seasons. And I've never seen someone train like that in my life. And for the first few years, I just did the train hitting with him. And then I was we got really close. And he asked if I would join if I wanted to join for the fitness session because I think he we just got along well, we were really, really close. And it was an eye opener. Like the end of this was the tail end of his career, how hard someone can push themselves. I've never seen or even to this day, like I've done some preseason with some pretty fit blokes. But he would do two fitness sessions a day two tennis sessions a day. Say he's just gonna get serves and we'd end up you know, playing two on ones and and then he transitioned into a Davis Cup role. And I actually speak to him a lot about advice on what do you think I should do? Because he knows me well enough to know that I'm a bit different to him as our personalities were very different, but we get along really well. It's a lot of banter between us. I was lucky enough where he would bring me along to Davis Cups originally as a hitting partner. That was when he was captain and he actually played the first time and yeah, I still remember him preparing for that was just something else. Yeah and then from then on he just became we just were great friends I was lucky to play a couple doubles back before he retired. And yeah, he helps me out a lot still to this day. I actually spoke to him the other day about I'm at the crossroads of what what what should I do and he's great to talk to you know, he's very easy to talk to for me personally, I really liked him and yeah, he was just like a for for a bit then he was like a bit of an older brother because I would live with him. I lived with him in the Bahamas and did some training blocks and lucky I'd even at Wimbledon I'd stay at his place when he was playing Wimbledon. He's the house and you've lived in it was it was unbelievable experience to see how someone and just the way they number ones think it's just a completely different that I always say he's a he's a different breed. How hard like even now I can see him in the gym just pounding it when I'm done. I'm not going near the gym. Even though I barely do it, I play so like how much get the motivation but I've got so much respect for him as a person and a player. Just as someone who if anyone wants to see hard work, do a Lleyton preseason.

Daniel Kiernan  44:14

Mind Blown,  one of my first ever international Junior experiences. I played under 14 That's called the under 14 Windmill cup in Holland. So it's like a tennis Europe event. And I lost first round who I lost first round to one that doubles story of my life first doubles and and put into the constellation Much to my disgust that I'm playing in in a constellation event, but managed to kind of crack on one kind of two or three matches maybe, you know, three or four matches in the constellation. And then I've got this little Ozzy on the side of the court, who is like the constellation Two matches are happening like the far end of the club, you know, get over there, you know, we're in like the woods. And each match has been like busy rest of fall and the next player tanks basically. And, and all of a sudden, I've got this little Ozzy kid who was a year younger than me, is fully in my face. Like, like, like, I like I've never had anyone in my face before, you know, and he's like, I have the tiger every point you want. I have the Tiger I have the tiger. Like he's like, all over me. But he wasn't that good. And he obviously wasn't a good because he lost to me on a clear court. Decent wind. Yeah. That was he had a drop shot winner, and he won't touch of Johnny Mac touch of junk. Like, like he was to the point where and I feel a little bit embarrassed on this because we actually goes 14 1314 year olds, we were like, Let's go and watch the Ozzy kid play doubles in order to have like a bit of a laugh because he's he's making such now that was 1994. Lleyton Hewett beat Andre Agassi, I believe in 1996. So like, how he went and if anyone's not caught on yet, that was that was late in Europe. And two years later, he won an ATP of MPT and Andre Agassi. Like it was incredible. And it blew my mind and it was a one I ended up we traveled in as the Aussies and the Brits stick together a lot. So when we were playing the events, we spend quite a lot of time with it and and got on really well with him. But like you said, II at that age, he was made different. It was yeah, the only player that I've ever experienced that with is Andy Murray at that age. And yeah, and Andy was very similar. You know, it was very similar in just this like, unfaltering belief that he was going to be one of the best players in the world and, and

Matt Reid  46:58

Eat ramen who will come they can put you can have a chat and you know, in a debate and there's no chance you'll win the debate. You made it you just quit because you're like, there's no point. And it's, yeah, it's still like it's the same things with him. Now it's layers but another thing about him is what I notice is you asked for a tactic than someone off it literally perfect. And I've never seen anyone like dissect the player like he can even I still remember there's there was a guy that would have to sit with him. And I had he was one of my friends and I said do you mind if we still ask him Do you know anyone around because I was away they must play in the playoffs or something. So I'll make like this guy's around. You want to come here with him as well heating and then so I went back a couple days later and I was talking to my friends I got asked him what he thought let me ask him what he thought this is I hit the wall so well. And and I hit with this guy for years, so I knew this guy had to like really well. So what do you think he went through it all? He's like, Yeah, very good. This that is the guy can't jump. Like what? So I hit a couple lobs in, can jump. I just if I just bring him in love him. I asked the guy Oh, do you have a good vertical jump because our mat is so bad at the vertical jump? Things I will actually notice things that he loved me twice. I don't like that. That is human and natural. I think I still remember like women hitting Wimbledon, like the look over the other courts. And like I was so fortunate that he would like, talk to me about other players like growing up like the Earth. Just like for example, Kyle Edmund was sitting next to me and he was just telling me about what he thought of Kyle and like, how he would play him was just being crazy was things that I wouldn't even think about. These are that's what he would do. And I was like, Oh my God, that's incredible.

Daniel Kiernan  48:53

Amazing. Unbelievable. We could talk about late and for hours. Yeah, and I would love to because like I say he's a he's a was a peer of mine. And then he became a big hero of mine as well with with the career that he had. Bernie Tomic

Matt Reid  49:09

I saw Bernie last week. Ever everyone? Yeah, okay. In the press. You see this side of Bernie that's it's not him. You know what I mean? Like he I feel bad saying this, but I don't think he's I think he's just brought up thinking that if he may, or I think you from other people, and I'm not gonna say who but he was he's such a loving like a really nice guy. You know, he's such a nice, and he's, if he doesn't realize some of the things he says is so inappropriate. And I just don't yeah, without I don't think he's the brightest person I've ever met. But on the tennis court, genius, absolute genius, but I get along with him really well. We joke around like he, he was. He loved a night out so he'd always be me out when I was in London and treated me well, I just, I still remember he buys a bottle of Dom Perignon. So we're all apparently on our own bottles. And yes, that's it. I mean, like, he's just such a nice guy. But I just, it's sad to see what's happened and how his careers kind of go on. Pretty Sal. But judging by his Instagram, he's back in trainings, training pretty hard. And I saw him last week, and he was yelling at yelling out my voice back, he's in a good place. So I hope he I hope he has a hope for his sake. But he really does get it together. Because he was watching he's, he's still like, the way he plays, he makes it. He's one of the only I said to, there's only three guys that have made me feel stupid on the court, even though it was a close match. And he was one of them.

Daniel Kiernan  50:45

Is 320 in the world edge 29. He's not a million miles away, you know, we've seen it, we've seen it with a Dan Evans, you know, when he came back from his drug ban, when he's come back from a couple of things, is kind of just like, like a knife through butter. He's gone through those rankings, you know. So you would think that Bernie is a couple of big results away from getting themselves back to a decent ranking. You think he'll do it?

Matt Reid  51:14

I hope he does. I think it's tough, though, these days to win challenges week in week out. It's a big grind, especially the way he's done it. Like he's already been up, you know, playing for finals or slams. And I think Dan isn't, again, I think he's a bit like lightnings a bit of a different breed where the fact that he was almost stuff you guys, I'll prove to you all that I can do it, and I'll do it quick. Whereas I think Bernie, he seems he just doesn't seem like he's in a rush, if you know what I mean. And I'd love to see him do it. I think he can if he knuckles down. And really like, he seemed like he was training hard. When I watched him play Christian Harrison, he lost. He was competing with he's competing and gets to a decent fitness level. I think he can crack the top 100 Again, for sure. Yeah. I just, I don't know. Like everyone will probably say it's, how long will it last? You know, like how long really accept losing second rounds of challenges. And I hope he's saying that he really knuckles down like Dan did and just say I'm gonna get out of here as quick as possible and prove everyone wrong. Because he can't do it either. If he's a frequent, he's a frequent player.

Daniel Kiernan  52:24

And the one that you've mentioned, you've mentioned them earlier. And it took me a bit actually not to jump in when you mentioned them, because I think E is such a fascinating subject, you know, to talk about is I'm a massive fan of Nick. You know, I in the juniors, I was traveling with Liam Josh Ward Hibbett, you know, Evan height, all of those guys that were that were Nick's age, so knew him all the way through the juniors brings so much to the game is, is I think, possibly the most misunderstood person in tennis, yet also is arguably one of the biggest if not the biggest star in tennis in terms of opening the doors to the sport to new people. We asked people at the academy who your favorite player is you can hear it Yeah, people are talking and you know, we need that in tennis. We need these people that are going to unlock doors and unlock the sport. You're someone who's played doubles with him. He's someone who's traveled with him as a coach. You know, he's someone who was was a good friend. So talk to us about Nick Kyrgios

Matt Reid  53:32

Legend love the guy as you said like he's one of those guys that like completely misunderstood. On the outside is this bad boy that everyone thinks the bad boy but on the inside, he's just a soft, like, a little kid. You know, like, he's such a good guy. I got so many stories that could I'll say a couple of it like a bit could tell he tell you about him as a person. But like he, at the time, I was playing decent doubles and we I known him from when he was first coming through. And we were that he was AISEC was training at a Canberra. And the thing that stood out with me with him is his self belief. I've never been I've never actually seen someone on and he does actually say it to many people that went up when I was staying like in rooms with him and stuff. He just believed that he was so much he was going to win every match if he if he wanted to. And I still remember what it was like Acapulco. We just got there from Marseille. He walking over the courts. He's about to play and he looks at me and goes man, I've got three, three options today. I can go out there entertain the crowd, lose some fives and five. One breakage set in the crowd. I love it. I can go out there and tank or I could win. And I was like I looked at him and I go What do you mean is what I'll win if I want to Hello, how's it going? I just said, Pick one, which one do you want? And our three, you know, I said, but probably you're gonna wait, he goes, I promise you, I'll walk off the corner when he come off. He beats him straight, like, obviously typed two sets. And first thing he says is told you about it's just, it was mind blowing. So playing doubles or something like that it was he just believed he was so much better than everyone else. We were playing these unbelievable players. And he's just like, Oh, don't worry, I'll serve us out of trouble. And he would

Daniel Kiernan  55:35

I mean, it was unbelievable.

Matt Reid  55:38

I think that people don't really talk about his returns, you guys are you he doesn't miss returns, he makes some? Well, that's one thing I noticed traveling with him was everyone was saying all the shots he hits but some of the matches, he just go into like not miss mode and just grind him down, make every return. Obviously, you couldn't break him was in service ridiculous. But then I just couldn't believe how many returns he would make. You'd make every return. But that's just him as a tennis player. But back to him as a person. One of the touching things I've ever seen with him was he used to this thing with a Kids Foundation before the Aussie Open matches. So all the pressures on him and you've been to the Aussie Open you see every every commercials, Nick curious, everything's our furiosus on today. And this was one of the years where he was he just won Brisbane. So the pressures on and he would warm up with me. And then on the side of the coordinator have a kid that was sick, very, very sick each day he a sick sick kid would come out and kick with the kid after I give him a box of rackets clothes. Everything was unbelievable. Like before he's about to planning sit down and talk with him for 510 minutes and didn't want any pressing it just did it by himself on the court. Then the walk around Sean around the grounds. And this is before he's about to play soccer on Centerport third round of the Aussie Open. We're all everyone's looking at him putting the pressure on them to win it then against them each on the next match. And then I still remember one of them, it was actually a real sad moment because he hit with them. And was that was their, their last wish was I want to hit with Nick curiosity. I want to meet Nick here. So they end up hitting with him. And one of them passed away like maybe six months after. And we got a message from I can't remember who sent me a message. And I followed on to Nick and Nick broke down. Like as if he was if Trump believe it, like, oh my god, like he actually genuinely really, obviously you care and stuff. But he was really hurt by all these other things that people don't see about him like he's a real softy. And like a really good heart when it comes to kids and people with disability. If you ever see him off walking off the court, there's anyone there who has a kid or you know, like a person in a wheelchair or something like that he he notices, he will always go up and win lose or draw, he's always the first one to look for that to, you know, try and make their day. And it for me, like do I pride myself on like, you know, trying to be a good person on the road. Like even when you lose, sometimes you don't want to do things. And I didn't even have that many times where I have to do those sorts of things. But he has to do it. But he wants to do it. He goes out there and he will sign autographs for these kids and make their days. And it was a different side of him that I didn't even know until I traveled with him. And he obviously got a bad rap for a few years. And I think some of the things he did were probably, you know, on the first to admit to college shouldn't have done him. But he did. But you've got you've got labeled this bad boy of tennis when you leave. If anything is the opposite. He's you know, he's his mum would travel with us was a bit of a was me, him and his mom and half the time we'd have two rooms we'd stay together. Because we just you know, he loved having someone around him at all times. hated being alone. There was it was like, but yeah, I need my own space sometimes. To OKK. You go there, but then the investment actually gets laid off. What are we doing? When are we doing this? And it was just like, it was just different. Like, I didn't I didn't know that side of him. Because I only saw the side. He was competing, being on the road playing tournaments. But then even to this day, like we're always at tournaments catch up, we'll have a few drinks some nights, but I think now with his new girlfriend doesn't actually drink much. So it's really good for him. But we'll go out and have dinners and it's the same net. Like one thing I've always noticed is he never changed when he became this, you know, obviously very popular one of the stars of tennis. And like you said with Liam like him think that he forgets about these guys, but then when he sees them on the tour, he goes up and he will go out of his way to joke around and it's like juniors again. And he always said he misses those junior days of like, you know, when they could just get away and do stupid stuff and be kids. And I think a lot of people don't see that side too. And that's why I have so much respect for him because he hasn't changed one bit. I'm not I'm not gonna say a lot but a couple guys you'd like I'm not going to say names but they do they let a little bit get to their head a little bit. There ignore you in the they've made it that he's been unbelievable to me and he's always treated me amazingly. So I can't I can never say a bad word about him.

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:16

And he's is seen as the uncut the uncoachable one. You know, actually, I actually had Nick Bollettieri on on the on the show, he was my 100th episode. And he wasn't given me a lot of answers to to questions I was asking, you know, he's quite, quite a marketeer. And the one kind of off the cuff thing I could get him talking about was was curiosity. And I said, Come on, like, how would you? How would you coach him? So yes, you're seen as uncoachable. So how? How did that come about? Because back in 2017, how did it come about that you were officially his coach for that period?

Matt Reid  1:00:58

It started off. I was I'd stopped playing singles at that time. And I was playing doubles with JP Smith a lot of the time. And I started like, looking at other options of what I wanted to do. And I, that year, I think it was that year, maybe the year before I'd done a couple of weeks, with burn and tonic. So Bernie, and Nick was supposed to play Davis Cup. And like it was the captain. And that's, like, love to have me around the time because I was one of the one of the guys that got along really well with Nick and Bernie, it is they are different personalities, and they are probably around the team. But they're different. If you don't I mean, like they, you know, they stay up late. It's just a different culture to what, it's the new generation, you know what I mean? Like, they're just they're different to say, like the graphes, and staff who are true blue Aziz. And you know, they go to bed early, they really prepare properly. And wait, where's Nick? And, Nick, I'd love playing video games and just did just different, just different people. So I'd had them around. And then we got along really well. And his mum, as I was leaving that tie, his mom and him were all at the airport. And they just said this was so just before that he had been booed off the court, losing the sappy so he was in a bad place. He went to Boca before the Davis Cup, we didn't hang around, and came back. And we pretty much stayed in the same room together, even though we did everything together. And he just said to me, he's like, would you with his mum there? Would you be interested in playing a couple weeks that doubles and traveling with him? Originally as a friend. And he goes, you can help me out. You can be like, you can warm me up like just but just to have someone we'd be like, Yeah, no worries, but let's do it. I mean, for me, I'm getting to play with arguably the best tennis player in the world. In the doubles that something is heaven, just go to Marseille will play Marseille. And he ends up he lost to Tsonga or in a tight match. But it was one of the best tests actually ever seen that never gets any recognition was it probably wasn't televise. But it was just unbelievable. Quality was a joke. And I remember sitting there just with goosebumps just thinking, how good is this guy like? And then after that, he just said, Would you be would you want to come to Acapulco next week? And I'm like, Well, I'm at work. I'm not playing and he goes, No, no, we'll pay you by the water. Okay, like, I think I was supposed to, I suppose COVID loop several in Japan, in yoga, and I told him, I can't go. And he still brings that loop to this day. It's I can't really teach me that. And then I was sitting, you know, I was posting photos. Acapulco. It's one of the best tournaments ever and was so much fun. Where is it snowing in Japan. So he was he was fuming, but and then that's when he beat Novak. And we just had a good thing going like, I wouldn't say I coached him I was more about like, managing him as a person. Like, I accept. I feel like I accepted Him for who he was. And I tried one thing I tried to really talk to him about, like in like trying to influence is is when you have a good week. Reward yourself, enjoy yourself, like, be proud of yourself because I feel like as tennis players, you're always looking for that next, you know, you're gonna tell them alright, what's next week? Come on, let's get ready for next week rather than sitting back and like reflecting and saying, geez, I did pretty well this week. That was one thing I tried to talk to him about. That was one of the only things a fire is tactics. He was a genius. I was like you, you do your own thing. It's one thing that he's won. A lot of people don't really know about him as well as how he can dissect the player lightweight. In a practice of warm up, he'll be hitting with him and he'll tell me how he's going to play him and what he wants to do. And he watches a lot of film online. Last time he plays the guy and you watch a lot of YouTube clips on the guy. He's very easy. His tennis IQ is incredible. And from then on, yeah, it was just about trying to try to keep him on the right course. So, we had a good run for a bit. And but as soon as you thought, oh yeah, we'll figure it out. Something would happen. And then you'd have to go back to square one. But no, it was, I always say was the the two most exciting, most fun years of my life. I've never experienced anything like it like, and it made me love tennis again, really love it is that you saw a site, I saw a side of it that I'd never seen before. You play challenges the odd Tour event here or there, but like, you know, you're getting to meet these meet Will Smith, and He knew Will Smith, who's coming to watch, get play and meet him in the locker room. These guys who are just like global superstars, wanting to meet the guy who you're sharing a room with. It's incredible how the oh my god, how cool is this. But then I also say it was also very stressful, because because of the expectations of the public. I still remember the Aussie Open where we won our first round of doubles. And he was in the fourth round. It's that same one when he was playing Dimitrov in the fourth round, and he had the day off, but he had a marathon against Tsonga, four sets four hours or three and a half hours. And he was exhausted. But he told me, he's like, Matt, I'll play I'll play doubles. You're crazy. Like he was I genuinely thought that was a chance for him to win the Aussie Open. And I remember waking up that day. And I had got calls from my mum was I was getting abused in the media, like, just why is he playing? You shouldn't play should focus on singles. This guy, this guy's a friend, what's he doing playing doubles in everything? What do I do? Like? I just spoke with my parents, I maybe you should think about pulling out withdrawing and letting him play. And I spoke to him that morning, I still remember calling him. And I said, Matt, I'm thinking maybe I maybe I pulled out you know, like, and we can. You can have a real good run in singles, that Dan and I let's play like I really want to play like, I love it. So then it's pushes back on me. Like I was hoping you'd say, oh, yeah, maybe that's a good idea. But you're here I've committed to. And then eventually, I think I made the call to myself, I called his agent and just said, look, I think I should pull out because he's actually I would hate to be the reason for not winning. He ends up losing that next match. But I would have hate to be that person that what what if what happens if he didn't? You know what I mean? Like, if I hadn't played and then he maybe maybe you were one you never know, but was over five sets, those two week tournaments? You mental? Yeah, it's draining physically and mentally. And I think even that one match of doubles of seven, six and a third in the 43 degree heat. I did feel a bit bad, but he ended up winning, thank God. And there was some of the stressful times that the decisions that you had to make some things that he did on the court that he probably shouldn't have. And, you know, I caught a little bit of flack from people resolve had you let him do that. Right. Maybe before we went on the court, he was happiest first one the planet wasn't my fault. Like it was it was a you know, you were on edge the whole time because he is a very emotional tennis player. But my highlight of my career I don't was when we won. We won our quarterfinal the Davis Cup. And I wasn't even a part of it. But watching how he went through. He made his semis of Miami here and lost the Federer in that epic. Do you remember the six? I was lucky enough that I had one of the best seats in the house. Yeah. And he was screaming at me during it. But like, in a good way. Like he was just Yeah, it was one of the I still get goosebumps thinking about it. Like the I still remember how distraught he was after it. Like, I've seen people cry after a match. But that was. And even, I think Roger, Roger came up to him and gave him a little pat on the shoulder just saying that that was one of the most likely and that match was incredible. But Nick was just bawling. And I was like, because he got booed, he was getting booed. The whole match from the crowd was one of the most one sided crowds I've ever seen in my life. But he did unbelievable to keep it together. But then he lost seven six in the third and it just all obviously all emotion came out. So from then going to win the Davis Cup where he he beat query and is now after being there for like two days with jetlag and then watching the opposite the crowd just like literally, I still remember the goosebumps, like it was one of the only times a year have been emotional as like a friend like oh my god, like how heartless I was exhausted. I don't know how he did it. And it was just incredible. To see him go from the that low to that high. It was it was pretty cool.

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:38

How did it end? Between?

Matt Reid  1:09:41

Yeah, we were talking it was in Houston. He was struggling with his elbow. And that year we had a few like wildcards. We've been promised a few wild cards, and I still was playing doubles. We're going to try when I was still like hovering around. I think I started with him at 60 and then I ended up picking I missed a few weeks, obviously, because I was just going just to help him out. And then it got to the point where he was injured. And we committed to say six weeks in a row and then ended up pulling out of all six. So I didn't know what to do. And I was, I still felt like I was still quite young, like 28, I think. And I felt like, I still want to play. And it got to the point where I had to decide whether do I keep playing or go full time with him was it I dropped out of 100. And I didn't really want to go back and play futures and challenges. So I had to decide then. And I still did weeks here and there. But then I just said to him, like I kind of want to give it another crack. And he was supportive of me. And he's like, that's, that's good. And at the time, he just hired a fitness trainer. Ash at the time. Yeah, so he had someone else who was always going to be there and ash worked with never, you probably know him really well. And a great guide who helped him out a lot. And so I kind of handed that over to him. And he had to deal with it then and go go through the highs and lows, and but it was so much fun. I Oh, every time I look back, I just smile and just laugh. It was incredible. Some fun times off the court as well.

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:14

You know, thanks for sharing all those stories, honestly, like, that's such a treat for the listeners, because because they just don't get that insight, you know, to get insight on on those. And, and there's a reason I chose those three names. Because not that I want you to necessarily talk about this. But obviously we heard about the fracture between the three, and their three big personalities in their own right. Yeah. And I think it says so much about you radiant in the fact that you were able to have those strong relationships. And And this leads me to my last question before I take to the Quick Fire. It's so clear speaking to you. And it comes out the empathy that you have, and your ability to accept people for who they are. And that's a, that's a massive skill that actually not many people in this world have. And if people tend to live quite selfishly, you know, they get irritated very easily, we allow our egos to get in the way. So that, for me is probably the number one skill of a tennis coach, you throw in the mix, your tennis knowledge, your experience your travel around the world, it's very clear to see that tennis coaching is something that you would absolutely fall into and do an incredible job. However, that would mean traveling the world for 689 months a year for the next 1015 years. So when the doubles is time to give it up, and I'm sure you've got many years left, what what would be next for Matt Reid? Ah,

Matt Reid  1:12:56

Funny you say that I'm kind of in the, in the process of now looking at options of what's next like whether it's I don't know, like I'm not going to put a date on when I'm going to when it's time to like you know put the rackets away as a as a player. So

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:12

That means you're gonna win next week.

Matt Reid  1:13:16

Please Yeah, that'd be beautiful. But um, yeah, I mean, I do want to say in tennis I really the traveling that's not really the thing that bothered me. It was the yeah it sounds really bad but I don't mind the travel I I've really the one thing I will miss on the tour and a lot of people say the competing that's something that I probably won't miss much. I know that's a bad thing but like that's something that I don't really love the whole competing weekend day in day out I'll miss more of the more of just like the the camaraderie of being on tour with a lot of the guys even we brought up Lloyd Lloyd and I just it's I love playing with him because it's more of the off court stuff it's just constantly giving like giving shit to each other all the time and you know like I genuinely I want him to win all the time but like when he created the open I thought you know I Oh even last week I'm I'll make sure you're hydrating up and he'll give me shit about all stuff and it's just so much like that's the thing I'll miss the most is like being around all the boys and like yeah, and the stories that go on tour and stuff so I definitely want to stay in tennis whether it's traveling as a coach I'm I'm open so if anyone's looking DM me and yeah, but if not i Yet some in some shape, way or form I'd love I want to. I'm gonna save tennis for sure. Yeah. But I feel I feel like my strengths I help like helping people. Just what I've been through and what I've seen on tour I can kind of give to invite the next sort of generation coming through and that's what I kind of try and try to do with the young Aussie boys and I quite close with Alex De Minaur, and I feel like I'm almost like an older brother to him, even though he's had a 10 times better career. I just feel like we bounce off each other like a few ideas and like, just little things here and there, you'll ask for advice on what it doesn't have to be tennis more about, like, the off court things or the things that probably affect you more than more than people think, is especially being a tennis player, whereas like you were talking about earlier, it's not like so much so much mental involved. If you've got off court problems, it's not easy to push them aside

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:32

at all, it's all interlinked. You you are going to be coaching on the tour. Without any shadow of a doubt. You mean you honestly, I've I've loved chatting to your ad. You asked you someone if I'm honest, I've always wanted to get to know a little bit better from from afar seen you at tournaments. You know, I love how you operate. You're one hell of a tennis player. Anyone that gets a chance to watch might read an action that boy you can serve as well. You know that goal moves when you're hitting that serve. You know, you're always welcomed down in the south of Spain. Whether it's to train to live the life to enjoy it down here as well. I've loved having you on but I have to take you through our quick fire round before you go. So

Matt Reid  1:16:20

Are you ready? Yeah, ready for it?

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:23

What does control the controllables mean to you?

Matt Reid  1:16:27

Control what you can control probably professionalism, things that you can take care of yourself. Like fitness, your grips your strings, everything like organization skills, little details. I mean you can't obviously control the weather you can't control your opponent but you control yourself you control how you prepared all the little one percenters? I'd say that

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:57

What's your favorite Grand Slam?

Matt Reid  1:17:00

Oh, tough won. Wimbledon I got to say Wimbledon like I love the Aussie open was at home and I'm at home but Wimbledon you just I I still get goosebumps you walk through the grounds and it's just yeah there's nothing like it's the pinnacle you know your watch it on TV. I used to get up ridiculous o'clock in Australia I remember watching rafter lose to even as rich and crying busy lives. Oh, yeah, he he's my all time favorite. I yeah, I still remember. Yeah, so Wimbledon for sure.

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:35

Wimbledon singles or doubles.

Matt Reid  1:17:39

I have to say doubles.

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:41

Rafa or Roger.

Matt Reid  1:17:45

Roger

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:46

Bestdoubles player you've ever played against.

Matt Reid  1:17:50

Against the Bryans

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:54

Best doubles partner you've ever had. This is

Matt Reid  1:17:57

A tough one. I've been pretty fortunate but I've had some pretty good partners. For I was talking about this the other day. I think I've played with the best servers in the world. So you gotta go Lleyton on Nick or demon? I can't get past demons. Now it's too late Nikhil demon. I probably ran on it once. And I was pretty good. Because like was an idol. I was so nervous. I couldn't play. So I was terrible. So I'm gonna. I'll have to say Nico demon.

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:28

Kyror rude. They're playing tonight. Who's gonna get that done? The popcorn match. Naked straight sets. This way. By the time this is aired? We'll know the answer to that. And yeah, we'll Nick Kiryas ever win a Grand Slam already has a singles Grand Slam I'm not giving him a doubles when he's too good. He's too good. For that to be glad to be with you. When a singles grand slam

Matt Reid  1:19:02

You know, you know what I from for a while there. I thought it was going to be tough. This year. He switched on is trimmed down his training. He's not partying like he used to like, I don't know. He says it's the girlfriend effect and if it is keeper, he's got to keep her every day. But he is playing some serious always yet. It's tough. But with Roger Rafa and all that nearing the end. Wimbledon

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:31

Wimbledon is the one I think exactly. Yeah. When blames the one Yeah, I'd

Matt Reid  1:19:35

I'd say he's definitely a chance. Yeah, if he's keeps on this kind of this sort of level that he's playing in going at. It doesn't matter that he's not playing much because he doesn't need to play much. If he's in the draw. He's a chance

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:47

Serve or return.

Matt Reid  1:19:50

Serve

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:50

Forehand or backhand.

Matt Reid  1:19:54

Serious question for him.

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:57

The full third in doubles are tie break third

Matt Reid  1:20:02

Tie break. I like the tie breaks. Even though I don't do well on them I still like I

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:08

Think it's better to watch medical timeout or not.

Matt Reid  1:20:11

No medical timeouts

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:14

Davis Cup or ATP cup.

Matt Reid  1:20:18

I think Davis Cup pretty much ruined now that the home unawakened kills it. So I don't know I I liked the home in a way ties. But other than that, I'd say up to a tea cup was in Australia, that first ATP cup when Australia played Great Britain, I thought that was one of the most amazing sporting events to watch on TV. Especially knowing them all. I think it was incredible. So that's a TV Cup now.

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:43

What's one rule change you would have in tennis?

Matt Reid  1:20:48

No towels.

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:50

Interesting. It's not easy to say unique. I've asked that question. In 157 podcasts episodes, and it's the first you're the first person to say no towel. Why?

Matt Reid  1:21:02

I think it's a routine thing. I don't think people genuinely need the towel. You know, use your shirt use your sweatbands that's what they're there for changes. sweatbands Don't be wrong. I used to use a towel but like claim double they don't use it. But playing singles. Yeah, the singles players maybe but I just think it's it's a waste of time. A lot of players stall going to the towel like trying to slow the play down. And I think it's just a routine thing rather than a genuine need to wipe the sweat off.

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:32

Love it. And last question, who should our next guest be on control the controllables? Oh, your answer. It's in the small print whoever you answer you have to get it's like a passing Are you you pass the baton on. Although I'm still waiting Mardy fish was on. And Mardy Fish said Sergio Garcia. So I'm still waiting to get Sergio. And Wayne Ferreira said Roger Federer, and I'm still waiting for that to happen, but I will be I will be hounding all of these people for who they say so who can you get? Who? Who can you get? You've played doubles have some big names there. You know what's what's your pull? Like?

Matt Reid  1:22:16

Probably not too good. Luke Savile?

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:19

That's a good one.

Matt Reid  1:22:20

Yeah, okay. I'll I can try and get Luke. I think he's got a pretty interesting story as well being in real country. Good. And probably one of the nice nice guys on tour as well and seen a lot, Jr. Number one. World Junior number one. Exactly. And now Grand Slam final doubles. I think he's had a pretty good career, actually very good career. And someone who is literally from a wine farm in farmer Berry, which is population about 10. So I think that's pretty cool.

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:50

Well, the one that the one that I'm definitely going to, obviously the listeners would love Nick Kyrgios. I understand. He's not an easy one to get. But seen as I detail it and you written the and 14 Windmill cup. You know, maybe maybe that is right for Lleyton to come on that might open up a story. If he wants to go and speak to his old mate. I have no contact. So any contact there will it would be amazing as well.

Matt Reid  1:23:18

But I'll try and send a message around to the Aussie boys see, see who's available. Because the awesome most of them are pretty good blokes. But who knows? Alex De Minaur he live in Spain. So he's a good one.

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:31

Yeah, another great one. Well, I'll be I'll be leaning on your ad. But thank you, on behalf of everyone that's going to listen to this a big, big thank you. You were brilliant mate. You know, keep keep enjoying the ride as long as long as it goes. And I know you've got a lot to offer. You know, whoever it is, that's lucky enough to have you in their corner. So top man, thank you. Thanks,

Matt Reid  1:23:52

Mate. Thanks for having me. And I'll talk to you later.

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:55

So they do say that that the first rule of coaching is know your player. And since we had that conversation, Nick Kyrgios beat Casper Ruud in straight sets. So Matt Reed clearly knows Nick Kyrgios I hope you all enjoyed those stories. And Vicki, this is a one that I'm sure you love that the storyteller.

Victoria Kiernan  1:24:23

Yeah, I say this every time I love all the stories. I love hearing all the ins and outs or the insights that we wouldn't normally hear even though we get so much more information than we used to on Twitter or on Instagram or podcasts but I love hearing about the relationships between the players and what goes on in their in their day to day life. loved hearing about Lleyton Hewitt, you've come across Lleyton in your playing days and we all have seen like how intense he is and when he used to play but it was fascinating hearing about what he was like off court as well. Yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:55

It is and that Lleyton, It obviously took me aback it I like to be able to Tell that story so he gave me a seamless link in to be able to show off about a win as a 14 year old over a 13 year old.

Victoria Kiernan  1:25:10

I knew I knew you'd be all over that.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:12

I need to maybe get over myself 27 years on, but but I think yeah, the fact that for me, that's my big takeaway actually. And actually, anyone gets to see Matt Reid play tennis. He's one hell of a tennis player. And I think sometimes we forget that 183 in the world in singles, you know, so he's a serious player he honestly serves out of a tree his serve as you know, regular 135 mile an hour serve you know, he can seriously seriously play yet his ability law must be his tennis life is almost defined by the relationships that he's that he's had. And it's been high profile, you know, Lleyton, Hewett I think, is a little bit of a Marmite character, you know, you love him or you hate him. And you tend to be on Team units or more on the side of your Thomas's your, your Kyrgioses in terms of the characters. And I think the fact that he's so close to all three of them. And and as you know, they're always the go to is the go to for letting you letting you always brings them into the Davis Cup team is always been around been a practice partner. He's played doubles, read the final of, of junior Wimbledon with Bernie Tomic and still has a strong relationship. And at one point was almost Nick Kyrgios couldn't couldn't function without having Matt Reid next to him. And, you know, that couple of year period that he traveled with him, you know, Matt will downplay it, but he obviously had a massive, massive impact on Nick Kyrgios, in his career as well. And one thing I loved, and I think as human beings, we're not very good at this, it's certainly something that I am not very good at, is accepting people for who they are. And, and not just wanting people to act in the way that we act, and we feel that a person should act. And that, for me seems like a massive, massive positive trait that Matt has, and something that I'm sure is gonna is going to make him into into a very good coach, probably more suited for more of that bad boy image. Because they, they're never going to change, Nick Kyrgios is never going to change. But can he be managed in the way that he feels good about being about being who he is, and not having someone judging him all the time? And I think it's a really interesting one. Well,

Victoria Kiernan  1:27:39

Well, you know, he spent 20 minutes I think, probably maybe a little more, talking about Kiryas, 20 minutes of the of the show, you know, he said to me, it was the most exciting period of his of his career so far, and working with him, to the detriment of his own career, you know, putting that on the sidelines. But what an amazing experience, and I think not just his personality, but all these experiences that he's had, will be huge when he did when we were going to say he is going to move into coaching, he talked about it, you know, that does seem to be the obvious step for him. But that can only be a massive benefit.

Daniel Kiernan  1:28:15

Well, it's the it's my second point, I think, from from that episode, and it's this, this sense of belonging, I know, we had quite a big chat about it about the juniors, you know, he's a big advocate of the juniors as, as I am. And one of the big reasons being, as we talked about it during the episode, that that feeling like you belong in the locker room that looking around, seeing the friendly faces being on nickname terms with the players. And having spent that time on the tour, someone of 68 in the world in doubles, maybe wouldn't be around at the business end of Grand Slams, and ATP five, hundreds and 1000s. But because he's experienced that with Nick, because he's experienced the Davis Cup with his relationship with latent, then he has a sense of belonging, I'm sure. At the top end of the game, you know, people will know Him will know Matt Reid know who he is. But it brings me on to a quite an interesting topic. And I don't know what your thoughts are on this, Vicki, but it almost feels for his career. He wants to have a reason why he wasn't Top 20 Top 10 in the world as a as a doubles player, as maybe why he wasn't the top 100 player. And I do just wonder sometimes that sort of character. It's, he seems more comfortable helping other people. And again, it's something I can completely relate to when I was a player. Was that because I had a fear of failure. Was that because I didn't quite want to put it all out there and still not get there. You know, I felt much more comfortable having someone to the side of the court with me playing playing doubles, I felt much more comfortable as a coach. And I think it's quite an interesting character trait because he's almost fallen into the role of the guy who doesn't really go to the gym. Well be it he had to just at the start of that podcast, the guy who likes these nights out, the guy maybe doesn't take his tennis so seriously. And and I do just wonder if that's been a little bit of a protection of him, not quite having the confidence to put his full tennis game out there.

Victoria Kiernan  1:30:35

I mean, that's something I guess he will know, once he stops. And he's got a few years kind of experience after looking back. I mean, I think regardless of whether he'll look back and think, did I really reach my own potential? He's it sounds like he's had a hell of a ride along the along the way. And

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:55

It goes into success measures. That's not me judging that. And I, as I say, I was very similar. I feel like I can relate to that. And there's, we talk about it all the time on this podcast, it's not the only success measure is not having ranking of X Y, Zed, it's about enjoying the experience. So who am I to knock them out? Read? No, I'm not doing that at all. He's had an incredible career. But he's also more than that. He's clearly loves the experience, he loves the lifestyle. So I completely tip my hat. Just from a psychology point of view. I think it's quite an interesting one. I think it's something that a lot of players can relate to, you know, and are certainly X players and coaches can relate to, when when we look back on our careers. Did we truly want to put it all out there? Did we hold a little bit back? So we could just say, well, actually, I could have done this, if it wasn't for that, that and that. And that certainly came up a little bit, because it's that role play. It's almost like he's got the role to play of being that type of person. But all of that being said, maybe then you lose his absolute qualities. And I think he's a really unique person to be able to mold himself into having these relationships with with some pretty big egos, you know, in the fact that everyone likes him. Everyone wants to spend time with him. And he helps enhancing so many other people's lives. Well done. Mark, read, and good luck. Good luck with the rest of your playing career. And good luck with the rest of your career. Whichever direction you take it in.

Victoria Kiernan  1:32:43

Did you find out if he was coming back to my bear for the challenger?

Daniel Kiernan  1:32:47

Not? Well, we'll see. I mean, he was talking. Again, he was talking as if it was very close to him stopping playing tennis, you know, and I think that's, that's somebody seems to be living life week to week. You know, maybe he'll go Now when a couple of tournaments because he's starting to think about about hanging the rackets up again. But it'd be great to see you if you are still listening at this point, Matt, get yourself down to the academy. We'd love to have you and hear your stories, but also see that incredible tennis that you have on the court as well.

Victoria Kiernan  1:33:19

And we've got a slightly different one for you next week. I know Dan, you've been wanting to speak to this guest for a long time now. But we're hearing from Dave pilgrim from Sky Bet or stato. Dave, as he is more well known. And he's been in the betting industry for more than 20 years now. He's going to be talking to us all about gambling in tennis.

Daniel Kiernan  1:33:38

I'm excited about this one. I think when we set about this podcast, it was about bringing all of the different lenses of the sport. And I think we'd be remiss to not get involved in this side of it. You know, gambling has many different aspects. It's linked to tennis in so many ways. Yes, we look at the negatives of it. And the match fixing and the court siding and you know, we look at all of these different meds but but the 111 side that we don't often talk about is where does the money come from at the lower ends of the game? You know, how do we get the sport out there and grow the sport and the reality is, the gambling platform is massive. It's monumental in in the world of sport, but certainly it is in tennis and I believe now it's in the top three or four sports for having the most money put down on it. A few years ago. They brought it in they brought gambling in at the lower ends of the game. 15 ks 25 k's and I just thought we have to get this subject. It's been tough getting anybody talking about it. And fairplay to Dave and to Sky Bet because they've signed it all off is coming on to the show. I'm sure we're gonna have a fantastic conversation. Read He dig deep into what it means for for the sport of tennis but also what it means for the gambling industry and how they're going to work together in the future. So watch out for that one next Tuesday. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables