#175: Roger Federer Retirement Special

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 175, of Control the Controllables. And we have a very special episode for you today, as we discuss Roger Federer, and in what has been a highly emotional week globally. First, we've said goodbye to the Queen, age 96 with her funeral earlier this week, and she was certainly a global icon that everybody looked up to somebody that we could all think of in important moments in our life. And then, the king of tennis, Roger Federer announced his retirement from tennis last week during the Davis Cup. And today he will play his final match at the O2 Arena in London, as he represents Europe in the laver cup. And it's a sad moment for everybody in tennis, because he's impacted us all so greatly from the moment that he came onto the world scene 24 years ago, and certainly here in Spain at SotoTennis Academy. The impact has been as been massive, whether that's the coaches at the academy, all the way down to our youngest players.

01:27

When I heard the news, I was very sad since he's a great role model for lots of kids around the world. And a lot of people look up to him as a person and as a tennis player.

01:38

In my opinion, he was one of the best tennis players ever. And he changed the tennis ball forever.

01:44

When I heard Roger Federer retired, I felt really sad because he was one of the tennis legends and hope everyone remembers him.

01:53

I'm so sad about every time he was a legend. He was a great player. 20 grand slams. I'm so so.

01:59

So sad to hear you're retiring Federer has been such a pleasure to watch you since I've been growing up an absolute inspiration for all of us at SotoTennis Academy, and I hope you do amazing after retirement. What an inspiration, especially with my backhand.

Daniel Kiernan  02:14

We will all know where we've been at the various landmarks of a quite sensational career of Roger Federer. But we want to have a little deep dive we want to get to know Roger Federer a little bit better. So we've brought together ex players players that played with Roger when he was a junior coaches that have known him current players, journalists, to share their stories, to give you a smile to give you an insight for us to get to know him a little bit better. Is he really Mr. Nice Guy. And to start us off with his Roger Federer memories is British tennis player Liam Brody so broads Roger Federer and and the first thing actually as I was as I was typing a bit of a funny thing I was typing all I wanted to do is just a couple of questions were going it was speaking was speaking to just a few different people that have have come across the great man himself in in different capacities. And as I typed in Roger, it kept on auto correcting to Tiger in my phone it completely, it happened three times. And it's like it's almost you know that the gods out there and looking at the legends of the different sports but you know, Roger Roger Federer unbelievable legend. I know we've got a bit of a story a picture that I know we both love with Roger Federer but what's your favorite Roger Federer story?

Liam Broady  03:42

Um, I think the one of you and me being on the practice court with him and walking up to the practice desk and Roger introducing himself and going are hi Liam I'm Roger. And I remember thinking, Well, I'm supposed to tell you my name. You're supposed to know my name. I'm, I'm nobody. I'm a hitting partner today. And he was already on the way to being one of the greatest players of all time. And I just, it struck me how humble he was and how, how he didn't take himself seriously at all, which I think it's incredibly rare for somebody to have experienced that much success and to be so relaxed with themselves.

Daniel Kiernan  04:19

For the listener. That was the 2012 Australian Open you warming him up on Rod Laver Arena before the semi final against Rafa Nadal. Now what do you I was the coach with you at that time? What do you remember about that half an hour before that it happened?

Liam Broady  04:41

I remember actually that I didn't want to I didn't want to hit with him. Because obviously as you know, there was a lot of stuff going off going on off the court with the with some personal stuff, and I just didn't want to be anywhere near a tennis court. And I basically said I'm not I'm not doing this. And and you asked talk me down off the ledge, obviously, you're thinking this is Roger Federer, you know, this is you've got you've got to do this. And I was like, No, I can't be anywhere near a tennis court and you obviously ended up persuading me. You know, Liam, let's do it. Like, I'll come on court with you. And, and, you know, looking back, that was the only time I ever practiced with Roger. And that was the only time I ever got to, you know, exchange balls with them. And thank God that you made me do that, because that'll be that'll be a memory that I cherish for the rest of my life.

Daniel Kiernan  05:28

And it was so much and this and this is the you listening out there? Imagine this, Roger Federer, the, the greatest player, male player of all time, certainly at that time, he was I know that Christian will go long and wide for the next 50 years. But he's there he's about to play the biggest rivalry that you could ever have. And I've got a player saying not not doing it not. Not not doing it. Broads look, I'm, He's not gonna hit with me, and certainly not gonna hit me and I start using my left hand, which was the reason for it. You know, thank goodness you did it. And I then remember actually, that ties that story together. And I forget the exact year but you know, maybe off the top my head 2017 When he beat Nadal in the final, Aussie Open, yeah, and, and everyone spoke about how Federer is now hitting over his backhand. It's unbelievable. You know, he's, he's obviously really gone and worked away. And that a preseason? And I remember thinking when I remember all he wanted Liam to do I know what you're gonna say her was rip high forehands to his backhand, so he could hit over it. Yeah. And, you know, do you remember that?

Liam Broady  06:45

I think for the whole session, he pretty much hit hit trick shots for 20 of the 30 minutes. But the 10 minutes he was switched onto me in my forehand corner, obviously on the outside into his backhand and was basically saying, hit Hi, Moon balls into my backhand, and he was taking them almost as early as half volleys. It's funny you say that, because I've actually forgotten about that part of the practice. And looking back now, I mean, obviously, that that came to fruition five, five years later in the finals against Raza.

Daniel Kiernan  07:17

So so you can maybe take a little bit of that prize money, maybe if you get his number,

Liam Broady  07:22

Maybe some of the yearly, some of the yearly money that he makes as well. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  07:27

But that lesson, I think it's such an unbelievable lesson that he taught us there because as as the greatest male player on the planet at that time, he was working on his game, he was developing a game. Yeah, you know, he wasn't content with playing how he played. And sometimes when you work on your game like that, you don't get the fruits of your labor for a few years. And that was a message that stood with me now, the next next thing I want to ask and I'm going to be asking everyone that comes on is, is there something you can tell us that maybe the people out there the public that don't know Roger Federer that have not come across some that haven't been in the locker room? You know, all of those bits don't go too personal? You know, is this something that you can tell us that they don't know about Roger Federer?

Liam Broady  08:12

You know, what, one thing I would say is that I've never seen a player or heard a player that's heard a bad word to say, you know, and of course that comes across in the press, but true, truly, I've never heard of the player, you know, not getting along with Roger. He has this incredible aura about himself. And but it's very strange as well because like I said, he doesn't take himself seriously either. So it's not like he's looking down his nose at anyone but just the way he carries himself he walks into a room and and everyone goes a bit quiet, even some of the other guys on tour who are obviously also fantastic tennis players. But one thing I would say about Roger that always i i thought set him apart from everyone else's. You look at a lot of players and they have these habits and rituals that they go through pre match in their warm ups to get into the zone, as we'd say, and to focus up for a match and I'll never forget Roger before stepping onto Centre Court at Wimbledon, he was playing Stick Cricket with his team in the warm up area under the Millennium. And it was five minutes before he went on and he picked up his bag and went on. And you know and the same when we practiced with him in Australia. It was a very relaxed practice. You know, he was hitting like I said trick shots for 20 minutes. And French Open before I saw him go on for his first round just a few years ago. He was just stood in the changing rooms chatting away to some of the guys who played qualifying and qualified just he was watching a women's match on the outdoor courts and commentating on it. And it was just bizarre because I was thinking this guy's

Daniel Kiernan  09:46

That was the juniors that was the juniors 2012 Because I remember that much. It was it was I think it was something like Syblkova was like a set and four one up

Mark Hayden  09:56

Yes. And he couldn't believe the swings in terms of Come on Yes.

Daniel Kiernan  10:01

And other content come on old man come and come and get yourself warmed up. And he said, he said, this will go to three. And then it went, ended up going to three sets. But yeah, I love love lovely insights and so many great stories that are going to now come out I'm sure about about Federer. But I think for everyone to know that he is that person that everybody sees, you know, sometimes we see the cameras switch off and people change their personalities. But he didn't need to, he doesn't need to be as humble as that. I remember us walking onto Rod Laver and he was asking me, he remembered me from the junior days, asking me about Simon Dixon, David Sherwood, you all of the guys and and he had a genuine interest of what they were, what they were doing. And that says a lot about him. And that will be his legend as much as the 20 Grand Slam titles as well as our last bit Broads before, before I leave you to get back to your training ready for your fantastic end of the year. One or two words that jumped your mind when you think of Roger Federer.

Liam Broady  11:12

I mean, he's a Titan, isn't he? He's I think he, you know, you get a few athletes. I know it's more than one or two words that the transcend that sports, and I think Roger Federer has been one of the few tennis players to do that. And I think that's, you know, kind of all you can kind of summarize with it. He's not played tennis for for or not really played tennis for two or three years. And there's this outpouring of love and devastation that he's retiring. And I think it shows what a hole he's going to leave. But for knowing Roger Federer or the type of person Roger Federer is I think he'll stay involved in tennis for as long as he can. I think he truly loves the sport as much as any of these fans.

Daniel Kiernan  11:58

Very good. My last last last last question. Are you able to get me a ticket for the Laver cup I don't I don't have two grand flying around for these tickets.

Liam Broady  12:10

I might have to stick that one on the Amex

Daniel Kiernan  12:14

I need you to pull some some some strings here broads you know this is it's the hottest the hottest ticket in town for pretty much an exhibition tournament but we know

Liam Broady  12:25

You know what's funny about that? I was thinking today I only ever saw Roger play one match live. Which is strange cuz I've seen some of the other guys play a lot. And three weeks before I'd watched Jannik Sinner win a challenger in Lexington before US Open and I'd gone on Twitter. I said this guy I mean, it looks like a team. Call now. But I said this guy is going to be top 20 hits the ball better than anyone I've ever seen. And three weeks later, I was in Dan Evans is box watching him play Federer. And I remember what watching the first five or six games that match and thinking oh my god. This is this is one of the greatest athletes and the greatest ball strikers he he took my breath away that day. That was you know, you could argue not when he was at his best in his career.

Daniel Kiernan  13:11

Incredible broads. Thanks for coming on and, and all the best for the rest of 2022 mate.

Liam Broady  13:18

Thanks for that Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  13:19

And I can report back that as I sit here in my house in Spain. It didn't produce I do not have a ticket for today's Laver Cup. But what I do have a ticket for is a conversation with my performance Director here at the sun or tennis academy. Carl Maes and call. As Kim Kleist as code savvy. I'm Alesis coach Olivia raucous Justin Henning, as he worked for the Belgium Federation, back in the day, was traveling and came across a young, talented, yet slightly grumpy and moody, Roger Federer as someone who traveled with the Belgium juniors all of those years ago. Did you see at that time, I know there was probably a young Brit Dan Kiernan and that caught your eye as a talent. But what did did the young Swiss Roger Federer catch you up catch your eye in those junior days?

Carl Maes  14:16

I'll tell you a funny story about about his junior days. At the end of season 10, as Europe has got some masters Yeah, where the best eight players are competing. And this one it wasn't in. In Florence. It was somewhere in Italy. I can't remember the exact place but Roger Federer had played the final against US national and EU national game was already with an agency and he had a Nike contract and and Roger Federer was there playing with I don't know, short from lotto and a T shirt from adidas or whatever it was. And so he clearly didn't have a clothing contract. I'm not sure if he was with IMG at that stage already but what you could see was a young player trying to play like we've seen him then play 20 years later at a professional level where he didn't become efficient in what he was trying to do when he was trying to do that same thing when he when he was 14 and unfortunately that didn't work out his mental ability to cope with with his failure wasn't that great? So when he was younger and he acknowledges that you know, and it's well documented that he's been sanctioned and stuff like that, but I was at the time I was. Kim was endorsed with with Fila, moved to Nike then as well, but I stayed with Fila a little bit longer, and it was a bit of a talent scout for Fila. And so I saw Roger Federer beating up the next best thing of France, tennis juniors on Pier, one with his different types of clothes. And I was on the phone to this Fila guy the whole time. I said, Martin Mulligan asset just sent me over 10 Shorts 10 T shirts, you need to sign this guy. I have never seen this. You know, two years later he's playing in Wimbledon and you know on the main draw and you know giving, giving Sampras is first is first loss. It was astounding what he of course, he has then played the final of the junior Wimbledon. But the jump that Roger Federer made from the age of 15, 16, to when he was 18, 19. It is phenomenal. I mean, it's phenomenal what he has what he has done afterwards, as well. But that was quite remarkable. You know how the puzzle all of a sudden, fitted in his game. And he transformed into a formidable player. And, of course, then IMG got ahold of him and you know, then they never look back. And you know, Martin Mulligan, missed this chance there giving giving probably the biggest for me, for me, the biggest tennis player in the world. Yes, you could have played maybe with a feel of T shirt for for a few Donald's. Anyway, it was it was fantastic.

Daniel Kiernan  17:21

But if you if you say that 14, 15 year old, and I mentioned this to one of our our other guests on this show, Carlos Alcaraz. It was clear. You know, I saw him at 16. And he was already a top 60 player in the world. You know, it was it was almost a matter of him just playing the tournaments to get the ranking and you know, he was there. I think we you know, we saw him coming for a while. Federer didn't seem to me like I remember seeing that the under 18 European team championships, and he was stylish and he was this and he was that and under 60 and Eddie Hearn, remember Simon Dixon beating him? You know, like, he was very, very good. But like you said, there was question marks on his emotion motional control there was, there was question marks on whether he had, you know, the real kind, of course substance that you that you need to go on to be a Top 50 Top 40 Top 10 play in the world, never mind to be the guy that has gone on and not transformed men's tennis. You know, there really is no so what, what happened and and was that Did you know? Did you see that in him? It's such an early age, or you just saw that he was another talent that potentially was going to go on and have a good solid career?

Carl Maes  18:41

Yeah, no, I mean, I go back to this phone call I made to the Fila guy. And it wasn't about or where the Master's was held. And that was the first time because I knew Roger from when he was under 14. And, you know, jokingly, you know, many years after I said you know, my name is Carl. And you might remember that big tournament in the summer together with Lopa disaster was guided with Antoine, you know, it was a big under 14 in the national tournament. And he always was joking about that he lost in the first rounds of the main draw. And then there was the constellation. And he lost in the first round of that one as well. So under 14, you had these moments of brilliance, but you know, it was just never working together until in the Masters under 16 of Tennis Europe is absolutely beating up Julianne Jong good and that was the first time when I saw Wow, this this can become something really, really special. And then I think the year after he he played the final of the of junior Wimbledon and you know, and the rest is history. I don't know exactly. It's, you know, we met at a lot of tournaments. I knew Peter Carter at the time, but it's not like I can pinpoint what what changed that one particular moment but it happened in a time span of two years, he transformed, he completely transformed.

Daniel Kiernan  20:04

And before I move on to my next bit Carl, you obviously weren't overly trusted by Mr. Martin Mulligan. If he was, if he was paying you to be a global Scout, you gave him a call and he didn't act on it.

Carl Maes  20:21

No, no, correct. Correct. Correct, Yeah, I think I think Martin will regret that. But I, I think it was inevitable that, you know, this guy was he fits the profile of Nike. And if we now go into his, you know, leaving the junior level behind, you know, he, you know, I still, I still identify him with with Nike, you know, he had everything to match that brand. And the brand matched him. And, you know, I think they've done an unbelievable job with him. And it was, you know, it was really when he went to UNIQLO. That was like a shock. It was like, announced, like, two minutes before they walked on court. It was unbelievable. I was sitting at the time with with Enric Molina. He said, You cannot believe this, you know, he got this message. And this was right, you know, few minutes before walk on court, Roger is not going to walk on court with Nike, he's going to walk on court, with UNIQLO and that went worldwide that so he's, he's become much bigger than then than a tennis player as a tennis player. He was, it was poetry in motion. You mentioned he's transformed the game of tennis. I don't, I don't think he's transformed it. He's transformed it in a way that other players had to find different tools to beat this guy. You know, and I think the physicality of Nadal and Djokovic which is far greater, in my opinion, I think Roger is a fantastic athlete, and he's worked very well with, with, with his team throughout his career, but he was he was the most gifted, this was poetry in motion. And all the other ones had to dig deep in other areas where they could control something, and they had to sort of whether it was nutrition, whether it was power, endurance, all the other aspects, they had to dig really deep to beat this guy. For me, he's the greatest player of all times. And I think Nadal and Djokovic have clearly now beaten him on the number of grand slams. But for me, it will always be Roger Federer. And not another funny funny thing, you know, at the junior level. Because we're went to a lot of tournaments together. And I remember when they practice beforehand that I actually held his racket, you know, this is when he was still playing with the 85 square inch racket, you know, you cannot play tennis, I'm not a great tennis player, myself, at best of cost, but that thing that's like a wooden bat, I mean, he's, you know, you're you cannot get the ball past the service line. You know, it was so tightly strung, it was a small thing. This guy, I mean, he's the only one that can play with a racket like that. Again, he was so so gifted. It was, it was fantastic. And of course, afterwards, when the more physical specimens came on the circuit, then you had a little bit of Andy Murray, but mainly Djokovic And Nadal. Of course, he had to change his racket a little bit to you know, to match the power and stuff like that and get a bit of a bigger sweet spot and find a little bit more power in his tools. But this was poetry in motion. And what he did with a tennis rackets was, was phenomenal. It's hard to it's hard to describe, and I don't think we'll, we'll get players like that anymore. Because I think from the junior age, we will always have great look, I mean, look at an outcast, just like you just mentioned. You cannot compare our girls at 17 with Roger at 17. I mean, the one is like a beast and the other one was was an artist, you know, so but that's how that's how these things evolve, obviously through through history.

Daniel Kiernan  24:11

And like I said, people listening to this people that are listening to this, the majority want to have had the opportunity to spend time with her with Roger. In in person, you know, see how he is behind the scenes. You know, we've we've all watched YouTube clips and watch them on TV and you know, feel like we know him from that level. So is there anything that maybe we don't know about Roger that you could share with us?

Carl Maes  24:41

Yeah, his when he gets the giggles together with all of our rockers, we played a few slams with when him and all of our rockers get the giggles you cannot help but get the giggles as well. And Oliver Rockers and you you know him as well of course He's a very, he's a very funny guy. And of course, you know, they can speak French with each other. So that wasn't, you know, our always, always English was was not the greatest So, and I was fortunate enough to follow these jokes in French. But those two together, they have such a laugh when they were together, he's an extremely funny guy. But, you know, that's a nice thing to have. But he's, I'm gonna give you one example. And it's not from his junior days it was he was a well established player at the time, there's a Make A Wish Foundation that exists in several in several countries. And one of the, you know, this is a pub group in Belgium that context me with a little boy that's got leukemia, and he's a huge, huge Raja fan, a fan. And they call me and said, Listen, is there anything that you can do and, and I said, Listen, I'll speak to Tony to Tony got sick. And he said, listen, we'll you know, we'll we'll fix something. Roger is not playing a week before Wimbledon. Let him come over, you know, we'll make sure that he can, that he can come in to Wimbledon, not at the actual tournament the week before when he was so I mean, this was, this was phenomenal. I mean, this was way beyond what I was what I was expecting. So Chris, the guy from the pop group in Belgium, he you know, he calls me the week before, and he says, Listen, he cannot travel anymore. He's not he's not allowed to travel. It's, it's really bad. And so, you know, as bad as that was, you know, I just call Tony. And I said, Listen, they're unbelievably grateful to organizers. But you know, he's not in a position to come anymore. And we dare, I didn't know in what capacity I was there, or whether I was there with Kim or with with somebody else. I can't, I can't remember. But anyway, I'm on the grass bit on the Wimbledon grass, where the player lounges, and he's like, with all these escorts and stuff like that just the weekend before it starts. And he's walking, you know, and he catches my eye, and he sort of signals me to come down to the locker room where I'm not allowed to go in. And he, he brings out a cap, with this golden braided RF logo, there was only a limited edition. And that for me, I mean, I get goosebumps. Now, you know, this is a guy who's defending his, God knows him, you know which title and he can think of those type of things, which are in his life minor. But he captured the magnitude of that for this this little boy's life. And so I was able to give him this this signed cap from Roger Federer. And that is, for me, a story that is bigger than, you know, then the tennis player. And you can feel that in everything, whether this is in South Africa, with his foundation, or whether he sort of and the class that he has when he sends messages out. And, you know, He breeds he asks him, you know, how he's wording everything. That for me is pure world class.

Daniel Kiernan  28:15

And a beautiful story there from Carl. And this is coming through loud and clear, you know, Roger Federer was so much more than than just a tennis player. And that was reflected in the competition that we ran, you know, here it Control the Controllables. We wanted to get the fan stories we wanted to hear from them. What what did Roger Federer mean to them. And the winner was then going to get the opportunity to come onto this podcast, this episode, and have their opportunity to share and what better when it could have be than Mark Hayden, who you're going to hear from now. He shares with passion. He is a big Roger Federer fan, and you will get feel the infectious love that He has towards him and towards his tennis Korea. So Mark, it's it's great to have you on Control the Controllables. And I think the first question to ask I know, you're a big Roger Federer fan. But are you a bigger fan of Control the Controllables or Roger Federer?

Mark Hayden  29:21

Tough one I, I'm a big fan of both, but I'm going to have to be honest and say Federer. I'm sorry. Sorry, Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  29:28

And what if we decide just that we're going to shut down as a podcast? Would that change your mind that we would get the sympathy vote?

Mark Hayden  29:35

Go on then? Yeah, I'll take you. Yeah. And

Daniel Kiernan  29:39

and in terms of, you know, we've been speaking to different people. And it has it's been lovely to see everyone sharing their stories, and I haven't heard many, if any bad stories, you know about Roger Federer. And I think the fact that so many people have wanted to speak about him I say, I think is a measure of him as a person, not just As a tennis player, but as someone who's followed his career, Have you have you been fortunate enough to see him play live on the court in live matches?

Mark Hayden  30:10

Yeah, no, I have seen him three times. And quite amazingly, he's lost all three times. And not not to Djokovic and Rafa, as you might expect, but three actually very, very unexpected losses. It was Davydenko at the O2, I think in 2010, possibly in the semi finals. I think he cruised the first set, and I was with some mates and he ended up losing

Daniel Kiernan  30:42

seven, six, in the third, I was there. I was there for that one.

Mark Hayden  30:47

Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, he had a bit of trouble with the other day and obviously around that kind of time. And he was he was struggling a little bit and yeah, so that was a bit of a downer. Then I got up for the second round at Wimbledon in 2013. I thought, well, this is perfect sense. Of course, you know, second round 2013 Playing Sergei Stakhovsky thinking, Yeah, this will be nice. And four hours later, he's lost in five sets. There. So that was considering his Wimbledon record. Looking back that was unbelievable to see that one.

Daniel Kiernan  31:19

Well, you're on you're on the same podcast as Sergio because he, I spoke to him last night as he he gave his tribute to Roger and obviously shared that story. You know, so you won't want it what goes around comes around. To be

Mark Hayden  31:34

fair, to be fair, I did really love watching that match because I love his game style being a certain volume, not quite in his ilk. But the way he served volleyed and chips and charging that match was you had to tip your hat to him. It was brilliant, but bit gutting at the same time. And then the third one was against guofan. At O2 in the semi finals in 17 or 18. I think I think. Yeah. Again, went with my wife and was like, well, he's playing golf. And you know this, this is a my wife doesn't follow tennis. But I say yeah, this is kind of a like 95 percenter first set against Strozier. I think six two and then golf in plays an absolute dream and beats him. So I'm zero from three. Watching him live. Yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  32:21

So the rest of the world if you're listening for the Laver Cup next week, you know, Mark is available to come and watch for a small fee. It might be well worth them, then getting some money out to bring you along. Now I'm not much better actually mark because I've I also I took my kids, I won a fastest serve competition at a coach education at NTC. My shoulder hasn't recovered since. And, and I won tickets to the O2 and I managed to get them to throw an extra one in. So at the time, I could take my three kids now but to take my two kids, and he played at the O2 first match first group stage Federer against Nishikori, and he lost. And luckily, I have seen a winner couple as well. But it seems like maybe I don't know, he's record at the O2. But it did seem to be a bit of a place where there was there was the odd bad result that flew in for him.

Mark Hayden  33:19

Yeah, I remember I watched that match against Nishikori on the TV. And I thought that was one of the worst matches. I've seen him play actually in his career. I was but I think he came back in and he got through his group. Actually, I think he won his next two and that year got through but that was a poor match.

Daniel Kiernan  33:32

It was so my kids, that's the only time they saw they saw him play. But talking of those moments, what's what's your greatest moment. There's there's so many to pick from you got 20 grand slams, you've got you've got 36 consecutive quarterfinal appearances. You know, we got a lot of a lot of Roger Federer moments, not an easy question. But what's your what's your greatest moment?

Mark Hayden  33:55

Can I have to or is it just got to be one. It has to be one?, oh that's so tough. Okay. If it's one, I'm probably actually going to go. I'm going to leave the 2017 Australian Open final. I'm actually going to go for the 2009 French it has to be the lone French title, years of pain, years of Rafa on the clay, even though that's looking back, it's quite early in his career, funnily enough, but it seemed at the time like it was just you know, he was he was ancient, and obviously, you've been so many finals, and I think he was virtually out in the fourth round against Tommy Haas. I think I remember and then he had a tough one with Del Potro, and then you had soling in the final and yeah, it was kind of the you thought this is his one. He's got one opportunity this isn't going to happen for the next 10, 12 years, which it wouldn't have done. And I don't think I've ever been as nervous in a match watching as that one but it was quite easy in the end and you probably just tipped the 2017 Australian No, it's crazy for me to say that was that was a much more dramatic match.

Daniel Kiernan  35:07

Did he Did he beat Djokovic in the semis that? Yeah,

Mark Hayden  35:11

I think he beat Del Potro in five

Daniel Kiernan  35:14

So what was the year he beat Djokovic?

Mark Hayden  35:17

2011

Daniel Kiernan  35:18

Okay Djokovic was on like a 40 match winning streak or something, wasn't he? Yeah,

35:23

He beat him 2011 semis, Rafa again in the final that year but yeah, Rafa lost obviously to soling in 2009 in the fourth round, which is probably the most surprising tennis result I've I've kind of witnessed at the time and then he made the final and Roger mate managed to beat him that was That was wonderful. Yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  35:45

I mean, there's not much you don't know about Roger Federer. He's what what When did when did this love affair start?

Mark Hayden  35:53

Well, I remember I'd never forget watching him in the semis against Roddick. You know, three obviously watched him play Sampras, and no one was aware of him in the late 90s. Already, you know, kind of, but watching him in the semis of Wimbledon in 2003 and thinking bit like we probably did last week with Alcaraz, you know, thinking, wow, I'm seeing something that is like once in a generation, you know, with Federer, once once ever. Couple of shots he played in that match couple of half volleys, and I always remember thinking, this is so different. And this guy plays in a way that I am a tennis historian, even though I was young and watch videos of all the greats, and no one's done these shots. No one's played like this. First few years, you know, I really admired him, but I wouldn't say I was fanatic. But then by 08, I became a little bit fanatic. And yeah, just from then grew and grew and just just love the guy. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  37:01

And so as someone who is that attached? How do you take the losses and which is the toughest loss for you to have taken Roger Federer?

Mark Hayden  37:11

Now? That's an easy question. That's an easy question. I take the losses very badly. And my wife and kids would tell you that. Yeah, I get very sulky. But I think there's only one last where I struggle with sleep, really, probably struggled with sleep for a couple of nights. And that was of course, we all know the 2019 Wimbledon final, when he had two match points on his serve. I actually didn't watch it live because I was too nervous. And I've watched it once since it was about a year later. The wife and kids were out. And I I made myself watch it. And I remember getting to the TV and getting the kind of recording on and my heart rate was spiking. I think I have to I have to watch it once in my life. And I was feeling nauseous. And it was about year after. But know that that was that was really painful. But I do think watching the 2010 US Open semi final when he had two match points, Djokovic

Daniel Kiernan  38:18

The big forehand, that Djokovic hit

Mark Hayden  38:23

Yeah, yeah, I remember where I was watching it. And I said to my friend, I said, I said, I think that's the end of the match. Djokovic is going to win. But I didn't realize, I think that's the biggest shot in tennis history, because I think that shot alone might have changed the course Djokovic would have won slams, but you might not have won as many and I think Federer would have won more. But that kind of changed the mentality. And I think Djokovic obviously put a few markers down before that one but it came back. But that was painful.

Daniel Kiernan  38:56

And that went out. I mean, I remember watching that and might I mean I'm a big Federer fan. My wife Vicki is a massive Federer fan. And and it was obviously the England cricket world cup final was happening at the same time. Yeah, so that was on a TV upstairs. That was exciting. That was dramatic. I think there was a Formula One race and maybe Silverstone going on as well. It was that was dramatic. But the tennis was so incredibly dramatic. And when I've watched it back, the bit that gets me and this is the margins of the sport. You actually see it Djokovic picked at 40-15 that he was serving wide. And he actually moved wide and a Fed went down the tee. And if he even put it like a foot foot and a half inside the line Djokovic was nowhere to be seen. So that was the first bit that was like, oh my goodness, how small of that margin. And then obviously that inside in forehand And just know any it wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough it was. And that seemed to come in a little bit towards the end of his career where he tightened up a little bit in some of those bigger moments. And, you know, I think that will be a one that will live in his mind as well. You know, maybe the one that got away the Twilight Zone of his career that I think will will hurt him and, and, and ourself as fans of his as well.

Mark Hayden  40:30

Yeah, I only saw it once then I saw it once. But I remember the two points. I can visualize the way the two points weren't when having only watch at once and like you said, I think the first one is feedstocks. I haven't seen that, you know, his feet, his feet literally locked and I think he sprayed a forehand and then obviously, he didn't get enough on that approach. And seeing Federer lose, and I don't think I've ever seen him tighten like that, you know, he's lost being brave and being a bit reckless or whatever. But But yeah, he looks he looked tight there. And yeah, what could have been really it would have been an amazing amazing comeback again, winning at nearly 38 But you know, credit to Djokovic you know, he's, yeah, he's amazing, isn't he? So? Yeah, tough to take that one though. That was a couple of not good nights of sleep.

Daniel Kiernan  41:20

And my last thing Mark I could I could share stories with you all night. It's and I love your passion for for better and everything that he stands for. What would be one to two words that you would use to describe Roger Federer?

Mark Hayden  41:37

Probably not out of the ordinary to most people probably class and elegance I guess, you know, would come to mind though. A lot of people would probably say that yeah, just so classy one in a one in an amazing way. And the the elegance of his game, you know, as as kind of sports people I guess we can see when someone plays differently and the way he played and the way he conducted himself I think, you know, personally as well, not just the way he moved around a tennis court or hit the ball, but also the way he was with people the way he was in press conferences. You know, some some people didn't like it some people found it arrogant but I thought the guy was Yeah, class and elegance

Daniel Kiernan  42:19

Mark thank you for for joining us and sharing sharing your passion you your stories, your history, in order to be able to go through the through those shots, and I hope you build up the courage to watch that match again, you know, and I'm sure over the years you'll be watching many more, but thanks so much for joining us.

42:38

No worries. Thanks, Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  42:41

A career isn't just defined on wins on trophies on on on first place, medals listening to Mark there, you know the the emotion he remembers from the 2019 Wimbledon with Novak Djokovic while big Roger Federer fans will also remember 2013 When he went out in the second round of Wimbledon, after 36 consecutive quarterfinal appearances and the conqueror of Roger Federer that day was Sergio Stakhovsky. And we managed to get him all the way from Ukraine for him to share what it's like to beat Roger Federer on Centre Court at Wimbledon.

Sergei Stakhovsky  43:27

Gosh, I mean, it's pretty hard I've I've first first senior my first, more or less serious year on tour. I would say we 2004 ish I was when I came to Doha to play Qualis I was ranked about two to 70 that time and I think I qualified but I never flew to Australia, although I had a decent chance to get in. And yeah, and that's where first time I saw him live playing. No and actually at that time, he was more than one so it's a different world different culture, but back then he was really killing everybody. But if I have to go back to some of the stories I've experienced with him quite a few but I think most remarkable for me would be that during I remember which year in Miami while we were still playing on the old venue in Key Biscayne, my brother's wife was giving birth in in the States and she was there with my mother and my mother was helping her out. And they came to watch they came to watch me play and they were just waiting on this little kind of island in front of the locker room. So I was just you know dropping myself and coming out and and when when I was going out I bumped into Roger you know word Hi, are you same same answer from him like I suppose how? And you know, if we go and I get out of the doors and I see my mother and my my sister in law and you know they all like they sparkling their smile They have them like just sort of okay, they've so they've seen Roger. There's no he actually stopped by and he introduced himself. So, you know, I'm not sure whether was the Roger ever seen my mother that actually I think he did. But you know, just the fact that the guy is doing such thing I think kind of remarkable and exceptional. I think that's what was Roger about he brought real class to the sport, he brought the values of friendship, he brought the values of, you know, integrity above everything. And this sport is just a sport, you still have to keep the face of, of human, whether winning or losing. And I think that was remarkable about him, you know that he didn't play it, he didn't. He'll make it look like he was trying to do it. He was just genuinely the end, he is genuinely the person that was doing all of it just coming straight from his hearts, his education.

Daniel Kiernan  45:57

And in terms of being a player in the locker room at that time. It always felt there was a bit of an aura around Roger. And I certainly remember that, maybe going back a little bit. But you know, when I played at Wimbledon, 2004, 2005 Everybody, they stopped when he played, they stopped when he practiced. Everybody wanted a piece of Roger, everyone wanted to watch him. And it almost it almost felt to me like the players almost didn't believe that they were gonna beat him. They were almost there to play a Wimbledon and watch Roger pick up another title, you know, as as a player? How was that intimidation factor in and I'm gonna get on to a minute when you guys played back in 2013, I believe but it back in that time? What was the first time you played on the tour where he was around? And what was that feeling? Was it was there a feeling of intimidation around the locker room?

Sergei Stakhovsky  46:59

Well in Wimbledon, it's always different. Because the senior guys they're downstairs. The unseeded guys were upstairs, I wasn't in city locker everything once only, I mean, I will see it during the woman time only once. So I would say women is kind of hard to, to judge. But in general aspect, I mean, you know, Roger, had every right to, you know, have this aura around him. The only problem was that he never really carried it. You know, when when Roger was stepping into a locker room, it doesn't matter who was inside or, you know, he would stop by he would say hi, he would shake hands. You know, he would ask few questions, he would move on. I mean, he was just a regular guy. Like any other player who would be in the locker room, there was never there was never tension in the air when he walked in, you know, everybody, right from the start? It wasn't like, you know, the he will come in, and everybody will be surprised that he would shake hands. Everybody knew that he is doing it, that he's genuine. And everybody felt really comfortable around him and, and he made everybody feel confident around himself. So it was, it was actually never even never even a precedent, I would say differently. Of course, it wasn't a court while you were playing him that something different, that intimidation is there. Because you know, once you have a chance and you're trying to win, then you still have to beat yourself by believing that actually you can do it. But in terms of, you know, off the court and even practices, I mean, the worst thing about Roger is when you practice from him, he makes it look so easy that you actually get carried away, I got carried away most of the time and you know, just started doing things. I mean, it's so easy. I shouldn't be doing also this easy. And then after five minutes and you know, a couple of couple of mistakes, you always have served several duties longtime coach come to you say hey, stack sack eight, wake up. Start putting the balls inside the court. You can talk about this little things a lot, because I think that he is an exceptional player, which created a lot of value to our sport. He raised the bar in many ways. And I think I mean, of course, a lot of guys will will challenge my, my, my my opinions to objective because it's mine and I'm not trying to operate with any numbers. But I believe that the new generation for me that the younger generation is me and Rafa and, and Nole. We all were created by Him by His changing development of the game, and it's just it just he was the first guy to raise the bar so high and killing everybody so easily that everybody actually had to reconsider what they're doing on court and what they're doing in the sport of tennis, and to be common to try and become more competitive against him. Back in the day, that was the only goal You know if you would get eight gamesout of Roger, you were king, you were coming off the court. Smile you're facing guys, you know what? I got a game? I mean, I'm the shit right now. So I don't remember things like this happening, you know, any anytime in my career but that was that was the moment

Daniel Kiernan  50:18

And what I've been asking people Sergei is I've been I've been everyone that I've spoken to. I've been saying Tell me something that maybe the public don't know about Roger, you know, we watch them on TV and carries himself so well and his hair is perfect and he you know, but is there something now I think the questions are a bit different for you because if we go back to 2013 We've got a Roger Federer going for his eight Wimbledon title you know after winning in 2012 against against Andy Murray which we all remember Andy Murray in tears on the court. We've got him that he's reached the quarterfinals or better and 36 consecutive Grand Slams you know, so he's he is the man it's it's Centre Court. It's Wimbledon. Second round, Roger Federer doesn't lose second round at Wimbledon. Yet you got past him. You found a way past him in the in the most incredible circumstances. So I think the question is more, tell us all how to beat Roger Federer.

Sergei Stakhovsky  51:29

I wish I knew the key unlock to that door. But yeah, it was, it was a good match. For me. I think the key on that particular day was that Roger really needed more time to get into the rhythm. And he really wanted me to play some of the rallies from the baseline. The only problem is, I didn't really play baseline tennis, I didn't give him the time or chance to get into rhythm. And if and only if there were any rallies, they were on a very crucial points where he wasn't feeling so free to, you know, to, to get himself in the rhythm. And I think that's the only luck I had honestly, walking on that court, I remember the only goal I had is not to get killed. I mean, because you could easily lose to Roger on a nice day, you know, 6-2 6-1 6-1 on grass, is the guy could really kill you on that surface. But on that day, I knew that, you know, my first round was a, I would say, it wasn't really a gift, but it was I played Charlie Bariloche. And for me, you know, playing an Argentinian back in that day. I mean, not like these days, grass changed a bit. But back in the day, grass was fast and Argentinian guy on on grass was a gift. It was basically a walkover. For me, at least for my style of game. And when I knew that I'm playing Roger, so that will go well, I have to pay for my free pass in the first round. I had to pay in a second. So my my mindset was, you know, not to get killed, and then remember sitting on change over the first set. And, you know, saying well, you know, great stuff, you know, seven, six, it's great, you know, great scoreline now just continuing doing what you do, and you got another great score line. But then somewhere halfway through that second break, I realized that actually had a break point. And Roger didn't and I start saying to myself that maybe if I'm going to keep on doing what I was doing good in the first you know, serving and coming in and not doing in room, I might actually have a chance of getting a break point again and you know, and then then we'll see. So basically, I was I was playing point by point and that's I think that's always the key and that's what Rafa is great at you know, he never looks in a big, big score. He always plays every point separately as the last one. So I won the second and I was a break up And I was a breakup and forth and once I was a break up that's when the the thoughts of not point by point but the general picture start to come in and you know, and that's where the doubts started to come in because you're beating Roger on court. But then you still have to beat him in your head because you you really disbelieve that you could do it theoretically again you know that you can pull it off and you can you can get Roger and rumbling on center court. And those things you know they run through your mind whether you want it or not that's the thing that you know they go through your head and and if you can control them if you know how to control you control them of course I was not able to I lost myself straightaway. Then it became four all and I still remember being six four up in a tie break conserving and predominantly all of the match once I placed a good served on the tee on the Deuce side. Roger return was kind of shaky that day and I would get a you know an An easy volley to finish or you know, or he would miss return. And I remember serving down the tee and serving really good service, it landed really close to the line. I was okay, that's it. And then I remember that the ball was coming back, you know. And I got a backhand volley to pick up and I was like, Oh, shit, what should I do? Should I play volley? So I played the volley, he passed me. And I remember going to the baseline, Roger serve six, five is still my match point. And thinking to myself, well, you know, you push him hard, you get him as closest to the match point. Well, you know, now it's over. It's Roger serving, and it was a good effort. But so I was basically giving up while still having too much. So it is funny, when I'm looking back into it, it is, but genuinely, that's what happened. And I of course, I'm a bit embarrassed, because, you know, all the pro athletes are thinking about winning, but I cannot undo what I was feeling so.

Daniel Kiernan  55:59

But that that management of expectation, I would imagine helped you, though, you know, they almost, and I mentioned this to one of the other guests on the is, it was actually Rogers saying he having a tolerance for failing. And, and it seems like even though you were in a winning position, you could still tolerate the thought of not winning and failing. And that maybe helped you Well,

Sergei Stakhovsky  56:26

it did frees you up, you know, you don't, you don't feel the pressure of winning anymore. And of course, it's a mind trick. But thing is one thing when you're trying to convince yourself that it's a mind trick. And another thing when you genuinely thinking that it's gonna happen this way. So I was definitely not playing a mind trick for myself.

Daniel Kiernan  56:47

And what did he say when you shook hands?

Sergei Stakhovsky  56:51

Now honestly, it was kind of a mental blur. But I would believe we have to ask Roger one day, honestly, I don't remember. I couldn't even go back and try to retrace it the next day? Because I mean, that was basically the always the question now. But Emotionally, it was a blur. It was a blow from the moment we had, almost to the press conference, I don't remember when the press conference, it was just you know, if you watch the video, you see that he's definitely, you know, trying to smile and saying something nice. That's what he will always do. But honestly, I remember I will have to ask him one day, but I'm not sure he will.

Daniel Kiernan  57:33

And says my last my last thing is, leave us with the one to two words that you think of when you think of Roger Federer, the great tennis player, the great man, the 20 time Grand Slam champion

Sergei Stakhovsky  57:48

two words wouldn't do it just too hard. You know, legend doesn't fit his standards,

Daniel Kiernan  57:55

Serge. It's amazing to talk to you and, you know, for you, for you to come on and, and share the special words about Roger, as I've got to got the chance to also have you on the show on behalf of Control the Controllables. And once again, the tennis community. You know, we're all we're all behind Ukraine, you know, I know, at times it feels like we can be a bit we're helpless. But no, no, no, that the there's a, an outpouring of love and support for for you and all of your family, fellow people as well. So lots of lots of love and lots of support from over here in Spain.

Sergei Stakhovsky  58:36

Thanks a lot. Thanks, Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  58:38

As you know, here a Control the Controllables we, we want to bring you tennis through the various lenses of the sport. And it's the same with Roger Federer. You know, we wanted to bring different lenses. So speaking to a journalist was important to us and, and who better than Neil Harman, who followed reported on 17 of the 20 Grand Slams that Roger Federer won. So it's great to have you, Neil. And with this, I guess, we're all starting to probably feel a little bit old. You know, when when somebody as great as Roger Federer moves on to the next stage of his career, and we we look back to what we were doing 24 years ago, you know, as he was a youngster, doing so well at junior Wimbledon, and then starting to make his name in the professional game. And then he's gone. And we start to think about maybe the next generation and I know at that point, you were spending a lot of time around who the people that are now the Great's of the sport, Neil and what what was your favorite story when you look back to that time? What's the one that when what's puts a smile on your face and and makes you think of Roger Federer?

Neil Harman  59:55

Well, one thing that's very, very simple and straightforward, Dan, you mentioned to 24 years ago, I was then on the Sunday Telegraph. And I was actually asked to write a piece about who I thought would be the stars of the future in both the men's and women's game. So 1998, and I actually wrote a piece saying, We should watch this young lad from Switzerland called Roger Federer, because I thought he could be something very special. So I'd been watching him at a junior level, and kind of stick your neck out on these things, who's going to be the future star? Who really knows? The young, the young woman, I chose us Alyssia Maalik of Australia, who kind of disappeared without trace. But Roger, Roger went on to do to do some quite extraordinary things. So I suppose you could say, I was I was a bit of a sage at the time saying, this kid could be quite good.

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:48

And if you go back to that, I mean, Carlos Alcaraz, I, actually, two and a half years ago, I, I take videos of I go to a tournament and I think I see the next superstar. I've done it with two players. And I set up their own little group on my on my phone, and I've got a just a group on my phone called out cameras. There was two and a half years ago. And the other one was Martha Kostyk. You know, who I still think, you know, when things die down that she will, she will make the breakthrough. But I think there's some very obvious ones but Federer as good as he was. It did have cracks, you know, you had emotional cracks. He had, you know, he hadn't made the Alcaraz breakthrough that he did at 18. You know, and, and I remember actually seeing Roger Federer at the Dog and Fox, and that would have been it was the year before he beat Sampras, which was kind of his breakthrough. And, and he had a pint in hand him and Peter Lundgren. They were eating kind of greasy, long hair. And I knew him as a junior I said, hi Roger how you doing? And he said, not great. Not great lost first round. I'm still in the doubles. And he was playing with Kafelnikov. You know, and he's like, What are you up to? And I'm like, Well, I'm at US college and you know, I'm not, you know, if you're not great is what you're doing. But he wasn't even at that point scene team and to live the life of a tennis player, certainly not to go on and be the great that he became, you know, so your call is a good one. But it then happened very fast. He was beating Pete Sampras on center court at Wimbledon, you know, and I know he didn't go on to win that one. He lost a Tim Henman after that but he was announced and then you know, nothing could stop him after that.

Neil Harman  1:02:40

That victory over Sampras. Given the circumstances, the location, the importance of the tournament was the awakening. I think it showed that he could cope essentially with any, any player and one of the Great's one of the one of the absolute greats of Wimbledon. And the world game at that time. And the maturity that you showed that day, led led led me and I think a lot of other good judges to believe that he had it in him to be it to be a Grand Slam champion in the future. There was a there was a poise. There was a poise about Federer and you. That's the one thing about him that I think I noticed more than anything, he had a sense of, he was in the right place. This was where he was about to perform. Well, you know, like a great actor at the Globe. He was he was destined to perform his best on the biggest stages, you've got that sense about him. And no one at that time, I think could have possibly believed that he would go on to have such a fantastic career. Because they'll, as you rightly point out that that there were some cracks he was he was, how can I say this not emotionally unstable. But he you know, he let things get to him. He's human. You know, he didn't, he didn't lose with the greatest of grace. But when the mood was with him, you knew that there was something there. And you see it in all the great champions were at whatever stage of their development you're right about Alcaraz. I mean, I haven't seen much of him live. But that which you have seen about him shows you he has that certain something the same within Nadal the same with Djokovic the same with Murray But Roger was really just this, he was elegant, you know, and he had this belief. If you have those ingredients, it's very hard. You know, unless you are really crack at crack at the vital moments, you're going to be successful and he is turned out to be not only successful, but one of the most successful players of all time.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:49

And you talk about the words elegance, and you touched on it, but like almost aura that Roger had, and you know, I felt it certainly as a player at Wimbledon You know, when he played the locker room stopped, you know, it was like watching any any had this this locker room power that it did I've not seen with any other player, but I saw great video the other day of him as a ball kid and I think it was back in Basel back when he was obviously young. And he was walking around strutting his stuff. I don't know if you've seen it, but there's this young kid, you know, and you normally see the bulk is the kind of flapping around and they all look a little bit fast and furious. Whereas a young Roger Federer looks elegant, he looks calm, he looks composed, he looks like he should be there. But he also looks as if he shouldn't be there as a ball kid, he should be there playing on that stage. And that was at the age of 12. So any anybody listening look that one up on Twitter, YouTube, you'll find the video but it really does go to show that that was something that was inbuilt from quite a quite a young age that that assurance and, and in terms of the public, you've been very fortunate you've been around these, these greats of the game, you know, you've been, you know, spending time not just in the press room, but being around those events, you get to know them, you know, you get to maybe share a coffee you get to you get to see a side of them. That that only we can imagine, you know, as we're sitting watching on the TV, and what is something that maybe the public don't know about Roger something that doesn't necessarily come come through loud and clear on the TV that you can share with us.

Neil Harman  1:06:36

I got a pretty good insight into into Roger as the player behind the scenes. As befits a great champion, he wasn't a great loser. He didn't like losing. He could be fairly monosyllabic when it came to press conferences when he wasn't when he lost. And it always struck me as quite funny really, because if I was at an event, and Roger had lost the the ATP media organization suddenly realized if he came and he tended to come in quite quickly had he if he lost, and they didn't want him to walk out straight away, which he would have tended to do. Had there been a stupid question and there are lots of stupid questions as to tennis players after matches. And then Nicola Rosani, that kind of number one man on the ATP used to say to me, Neil, would you come into the press conference? And make sure you ask the first question, because even if I asked a stupid one, which I must say I have done in the past, if it came from me, Roger would kind of accept it. If it came from someone who didn't know, that he had not seen before, and he didn't understand. And he was a bit, as I say he was downcast. He could tend to get very frosty and then say nothing for the whole press conference, which of course, was not what the ATP wanted. So they said oh Neil was that. I mean, they were coming, please, please come in, please come in. And make sure you ask the first question. So Roger probably got a bit pissed Occasionally, when it was always me sitting there saying, well, Roger is not quite your day to day was it but I did it with a smile. And he kind of he would open up a little bit more than I think he would have done to someone who didn't know, so that I had that kind of relationship with him. But also the times I'll tell you one story. When we added a feature for the for the times, or about 12 1215 years ago, we wanted it to be the front page leader valuable and supplement. And it was arranged to be to be the interview will take place on the lawn outside the players outside the players building. So Roger was fine came up in practice. He introduced himself to the photographer who we'd obviously not met before. And the photographer said, Roger, would you mind not wearing that shirt because it doesn't go with the color of the background. And he said What color would you like me to wear? So he said well, I think red would go very nicely with the background I've got and Roger goes through his bag and pulls out a red shirt takes his top off puts his shirt he said how's that photographer said that's great. And for a very simple thing like that. There's a profession. He didn't want it. He didn't want himself to be seen not looking good in a in a picture in a newspaper. And as you know from his kind of the clothing he wore and the way the style you had and the way he looked he never wanted to be seen to have a anything out of place and that to me somebody might be was happy to have gone through more on any color that photographer wanted so long as it suited the picture.

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:39

Very classy wasn't he in in every time he walked on the court and as the defending champion I was looking forward to seeing you know what you bag he had or you know the jackets that he that he wore, but just to pick up on that that point around being a little bit frosty. If he'd lost a match it Is that something that changed throughout his career as he, as he got a bit older, became a father? You know, because it always, it always seems to me and I use this terminology a lot. And it comes from from Federer. Top, you've got to have a tolerance for failure as a tennis player, you know, and I always, I always felt certainly in his later days, he was very good at giving perspective answers, you know, of, well, at the end of the day, I'm gonna go on, food's gonna be on the table. I'm gonna have dinner with my with my family. And do you think he got to that point? And do you think maybe a defining moment was becoming a father? Or do you think that was maybe just in the public eye that I viewed that and actually, he was still, he was still hurting as much as he did from day one.

Neil Harman  1:10:53

He was he was very professional in all that he did. But be on the court or off the court. He didn't want to put a foot wrong or be seen to put a foot wrong. Some might find that a bit intimidating, a bit off putting, but but he was he was trained very well. He understood what people wanted. He understood what the media wanted. He understood what the what the tournament's, he was playing in wanting what his sponsors wanted. He was, as I say, he was very well, very educated, very smart, very savvy. He understood who he was, what he was achieving, what he could achieve the levels to which he reached. And he, as I say, he very rarely in public, put her foot out of place. Of course, he got entangled in a couple of debates, especially when it came to prize money at tournaments, which was something he felt very strongly about, especially that the lower players in tennis, as it were, those rank 50 and below, receive their just desserts. He was quite a strident man when he was president of the player count. So it wasn't easy to be a player of his distinction and his prestige, to go into battle for lower, for the lower ranked players. I think that that always put him in very good stead, he was so well respected. You've only got to read the messages from all sorts of players since he's announced his retirement to appreciate what he meant to so many people, as I say, and it wasn't necessarily his talents on the call, of course, which were incredible, but the fact that he stood up for people off the court as well, and did the did the job, right. Obviously, at any stage of your life. If you become a father, things change, your attitudes change, your priorities change a little bit, but he never lost sight of the fact that tennis tennis was the breadwinner. And he was he was particularly good at what he did. And there are going to be arguments who is the best I've, it's such a it's such a kind of subjective argument. People, you know, people are so aligned in certain corners. I think what we should we should really enjoy the fact that in the last 20 years, we had Federer we had Nada;, we had Djokovic, we had Murray the men's game, and an era that even though players like Alcatraz and sinner are coming through on that side, and we've got, you know, good some good young British players, like like Jack Draper coming through. I suspect it'll be a long time before we can replicate the what that what there was in the in the kind of early 2000s. And era. I think that is probably beyond challenge in the next few years.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:33

And we're also very lucky with our next guest, because when I was younger, and that was a long time ago, there was there was two players that everyone talked about who had this unbelievable talent, you know that they were so easy on the eye, they could hit every shot, and one of them was Roger Federer, and the other one was Xavier Malisse. And by no means did Xavi Malisse not have a fantastic career. He had a brilliant career, he made semi finals of a Grand Slam, he was top 20 in the world, you know, His career spanned 12, 13 years. Yet, somehow, that pales into insignificance of what Roger Federer went on to achieve. And that again, when we when we have the comparisons within the eras, it really does just stand out as such an incredible, incredible career to have Xavier come on and share his stories from juniors from Davis Cup from Wimbledon from the Grand Slams was a real treat and Xavier to global talents when you were young you know I was the same age is what I am the same age as you but competing against yourself and then Roger was a year younger and coming through and what's what's your first memory of, of coming coming across Roger and and what were your thoughts back there as a junior

Xavier Malisse  1:14:59

well To be honest, I think I've came across him the first time was in Milan in his I think it's Bonfiglio tournament or something. I mean, and it was funny, you know, some people, they were starting to talk about him. And I watched a little bit. But, you know, it was strange because I thought, well, the strokes are nice, but they're flying everywhere. You know, it wasn't. I'm not gonna say that good. But it was good. But it was just so many mistakes. He was also rattled very quickly, but you could see, I mean, just the effort. It was so effortless. They were still flying everywhere. He was making mistakes. He was, you know, getting all all bad. But that was the first time. And then the second time I actually played him. I think I played them. In juniors in England, actually, on it was, I think it was that green clay or whatever they call a gray clay.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:56

Queens

Xavier Malisse  1:15:57

Yeah I think it was the European Championships. And I played Roger Fisher, and actually, and I think we were 15 or 16. And I beat him like, one and 0, and he was crying after the game. And he was such, you know, beat him want to know. And I felt bad for him because he was crying. And you know, he didn't play very good, and it was dark day. And then you know it, but it was always there. And then all of a sudden, it's just, you know, it took off and the ball started going in his demeanor was a lot better, he was calmer. And then at the end of the day, he's beating us , and we're crying.

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:39

So well, I'm feeling good about myself right now, because I lost one on one to you. Zavier. So like, round about that age, you completely embarrass me in Belgium in front of far too many people in the home crowd, you know, hit way too many dropshot winners past me. But does that mean that that I was double the level of Roger at that age? You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take and I'm gonna take and run with that one. I'm not gonna give you a chance to answer that. And in terms in terms of in terms of being around and obviously being very similar age, you know, he's he's outlasted pretty much all of the 80s 81 birthdays on the tour, which is incredible. But what's your favorite moment, your favorite memory when you think of Roger Federer, the tennis player?

Xavier Malisse  1:17:29

I mean, I think I have to actually, we played the Davis Cup when we were both 1819 years old, in Belgium, to go to the quarters or semis and Davis Cup. And I had to play Roger when we were to one up. And it was 30 degrees is actually one of my best Davis Cup moments, too. We just, I mean, we went at it, it was 30 degrees. We played for three and a half, four hours, it was four sets. And we both cramped. It was funny because he cramped. And then when he got up then I cramped and so you know, it was one of those matches where I think it kind of launched our career a little bit. It was one of those matches. I mean, I won but it doesn't really matter. But it was just one of those matches. You know, it had everything in it. I mean, it's nice to win obviously that's a nice moment. But yeah, it was just we both played lights out and it was just you know, it's tennis from from from the highest level. And then my second one would definitely be at Wimbledon. I still remember one moment actually, I was playing really good. I think it was fourth round. Played him at the end of my career. I was probably 2011 or 12 or 13 Maybe was last year anyways, and I was playing him and I was playing also again like I always liked playing Roger. You know I always played three sets I mean only one one so he whooped my ass all the rest but it was never like one on one thing. I always played three sets. I always liked them because for me, in my mind, it was still Roger from we were 15, 16 years old, you know, so I could kind of make that that transition to add you know, it's Roger, I know Roger, you know, it's easy and do just do this. I kind of know play him but he did always beat me. But Wimbledon definitely. I broke six five up first set playing really good tennis. I mean, he was playing good too. I was just feeling I thought okay, six, five I'll serve it out. I mean, I played four points to perfection. And I lost a game on love 40 This guy came up. I mean, it's something that always stayed with me came to the net perfect slice. Boom, it is oops, it passed me do a drop shot. Boom does this and it's just four points. Before I knew it. I lost the tie break. I was down 7-6 Six two, I think. Then I came back won 6-4 I was think to one up in the fourth break. Again, you played well the whole match. And then boom, just turns it on again and just same thing and there's so many memories of him just doing that. You know, same thing in Australian Open. I won three sets to love beat Montanas three sets. I mean, I'm playing really good. I'm feeling you know, I'm playing Roger, third round, Centre Court. I'm thinking I'm ready. I'm playing good. I mean, physically good shape everything good. We start to match. I mean, I think it was for love for him in like nine minutes. And I just, you know, now you start feeling like crap on the court. It's on TV. Millions are watching. And it's like, what, you know, what the hell and it's just one thing that always stands out if he is in the zone. Just sit back, relax, enjoy, be a spectator. Because there wasn't anybody like him. So he could turn it on man. And then you couldn't do anything. Nothing. Just just sit there

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:08

When you're in that moment. And I know you're a pretty chill guy. But are you able to reflect on that as it's happening on that game? Have we got up to that Wimbledon? Serving six, five, and you get broken? Are you able to reflect and go? You know what? You've played a good game there. He's just split it? Or is that a reflection after the match?

Xavier Malisse  1:21:32

When you're a bit older, I mean, I was 31, 32 at that time, I could reflect a little bit I think actually smiled and laughed at some point. Because, you know, when you play good points, and you do the right things, but the other guy just does the other things better, you know, so yeah, you can reflect on that. The feeling in Australian Open at that time. All you're trying to do is just give me a game you know, just don't bagel me it's on TV. Just stop me feel ridiculous. You know, and and so it's tougher when you're younger, when you're older, you can can reflect a bit better, but that's why I say that moment because I realized I was playing high level tennis. And here's this dude, just making me not look ridiculous, but at some point, you know, it really is. And so, yeah, it's just, that's just what he did.

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:24

And as people that have, you've known him for a long time, you know, and I always go back to and I'm very grateful for this podcast, actually, because it's put us back in touch, you know, like we hang out as juniors and then life happens, doesn't it? It goes, you know, different people's lives go a different ways. But, but ultimately, I think there's that connection of, you know, that tennis has brought us together. You have memories of juniors. I know some things that maybe I wouldn't say on on the podcast about yourself. You know, maybe I would share the Louise Herbert if Louise Herbert is listening the the note under the door at Bisham Abbey ITF but is that is that anything that that you can share with us about Roger that isn't gonna get him into trouble but just something that maybe the public doesn't necessarily know about him?

Xavier Malisse  1:23:13

I mean, I mean it's tough because he's such a you know, worldly figure and it's not like you know, once he got to the top a you know, they're pretty well protected these guys but I mean, if I can say one thing is this this guy no matter what they who you are, because like you say, you know, tennis connects you and and and we grew up together you know just like yourself and Roger he he could be across the hallway if he sees you he I mean the guy just that that to me is even bigger than tennis tennis the guy just stops walks all the way to you says hello with the utmost respect so for me it's tough to get into his personal because you know we didn't really hang out that much or you don't see that much but for me what stands out is just the pure class the respect I mean, this guy was the best ever so you know to be so nice and still humble and do all that to me that's that's even bigger achievement than his whole career. And that's that's why I like this guy so much and I will always say feather is the best obviously in adults great guy to same thing but you know it's just yeah for me that stands out this I still remember Wimbledon I'm coming up the stairs and he's already upstairs or downstairs. This guy just walks up goes hey exits up I mean, it just always very, very nice. And to me that you're you know, gentleman in class and that's that that's something about the guy that is just that that's gonna last forever.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:58

And the last thing in one to two words, one to two words that would describe Roger Federer.

Xavier Malisse  1:25:06

I mean, for me, you got to put the word goat in there for sure. I mean, to me it's just just just the way you the way he plays it was just so nice to watch. I mean, I don't think we're gonna see that very soon, that elegance on core. And then second word from me would just be coming towards a class and gentleman, I mean, for me that is, that's definitely on top. And just pure pure class that guy

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:35

classes a word that we've heard so much throughout Roger Federer as Korea, but it's also the word that I would use to describe our next guest, Aisam Qureshi . Aisam, as always, it's so good to talk to you, my man. And I was thinking Roger Federer retires, who can I speak to? That is older than Roger Federer, yet is still going on the ATP tour, and then your face your smiley face jumped to my mind. So how does it feel? I mean, it's a bit early, isn't it giving up when he's 41?

Aisam Qureshi  1:26:13

Yeah mate, to be honest I think it's sad for the whole tennis world for the whole sporting world, anybody who is who loves sport in general, with a pretty sad moment, but I think as a tennis player, we saw it coming a little bit earlier as well. I was last week with my Davis Cup match also, and we were having this discussion about the logic and make it come back and stuff like that. And I had a feeling I just said, I don't think it's gonna be, it's gonna be very difficult for him to come back next year, especially with the knee surgeries. And the fact that he keeps delaying his comeback. I think they're not good signs for him coming back and playing at the professional level. And few days later, he announced their retirement. So definitely very sad moment, and all the memories that I have with him, since junior career kind of came up, you know, and you go down Memory Lane had some good moments on the court off the court with him. And, yeah, someone I think the whole tennis world, especially myself as well, and every single person, whether they lost to him or they played against him, and spend a few moments with him, they're gonna miss that 100%

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:15

and have those memories and that was I guess, my motivating factor speaking speaking to yourself as you've known him for 27 years as such, you know, from from the junior years. What's your your favorite memory? You know, something that you know, Will? I'm sure you've got lots but if you could pick one, what's your favorite memory with Roger Federer

Aisam Qureshi  1:27:37

made for me, I think the one memory I'm going to share my experience is something that I don't think I'm gonna ever forget in my life, and something that made me respect him and admire him even more than I had. In 2009. I played Roger Federer in professional tennis for the very first time I played him in juniors. But yeah, in juniors, he was not Roger Federer. We know he was one number one juniors, I was world number seven, but I think we never thought or anybody thought that he is going to be winning 20 grand slams, and want to be the most iconic tennis player of all times. But 2009 I was in Pakistan, actually, at the moment for my best friend's wedding. It was mid November, and I had entered Basel. And at that time, a doubles ranking was around 8090. And I was six out of Basel tournament. And for me, the the year was over, we were six out so I decided to go home. Not gonna get in the Basel event. I was getting ready for my best friend's wedding in Islamabad. Nasir Shirazi, you probably know him as well. I had a phone call from the ATP on Saturday. And the wedding was on Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So the one that had passed already on Saturday, they call me and they're like you got in the Basel event, and we just want to know if you decided to come in to play or not. So I said, Okay, I'll get back to you in 510 minutes. I need to check with my partner where he is so messed up James. And he's like, Yeah, mate, I think I'm going to be should go because at 90 How you gonna get in the 500. It's an unbelievable opportunity. And I asked I call it ATP again and I'm like, can I please get a Wednesday start because I'm in Pakistan right now. I'm going to fly on Sunday. I reach Monday, and then I'm going to write Monday evening latest. And if you can give me a like a one day later start Wednesday and the guy says sorry, we can't because you already scheduled to play Roger and to the Nelly at seven o'clock on Sunday evening. At that time, I didn't know that I'm playing Roger. So I was like, obviously flabbergasted being a Pakistani, and a tennis player knowing that I'm going to be playing Roger and obviously I don't know how much opportunity I'm going to get again in my life. So I went to my best friend, Nser and I'm like, You will not believe that I got in Basel and what are we playing against? And he goes, Roger, and I go yeah man. And I'm like, Okay, I just want to ask you, if it's okay for me to go to Basel, and he goes, Yeah, man, to help with my second third day of wedding, you've been here. You've been here the whole week. Anyway, go man. So when I went to budget arrived Monday evening, I went back to session and then played him on Tuesday. Still to this day, I honestly honestly have no idea how we managed to win that match against them. I don't know at all. And I remember this moment, when I shook hands with them after the match. I told him, it was an honor to be a same court as you. I told Roger that, and he goes, mate, but we have played 10 years ago in juniors as well. So it's not our first time for me what a shock. I remember playing him in the juniors. But I never expected him being more number one, one, like 12 Grand Slams already. And he still remembered me playing against him in juniors. And the fact that he said it to me, after so many years, you didn't have to, he was Roger Federer, the greatest player of all times, that just showed his humbleness, and how good of a person he is, you know? And I told him, yeah, man, I remember that, but I didn't expect you to remember it. And he's like, man, it's very easy. You're the only Pakistani guy I've ever played in my life. So I remember that very easily. And so for me, it was, I think, even a better moment for me and greater moment, then actually beating him that he remembered me as a Pakistani, whatever, that I played him 10 years ago as well, and juniors. And then I went to the locker room, and I was obviously, messaging my dad, my mom, and everybody, I told them, what he said to me and stuff like that. And then he came in the locker. And knowing Roger really doesn't spend too much time in the locker rooms, he just gets the business and he was going home, but he specially came in, and he said, all the best for the next match, and you're in my hometown, if you need anything, just let me know. And he left. And like, he had no business. But that's just made me respect the guy like even more, you know, and obviously to learn and be a role model that he is on and off the court. People think or maybe think that tennis player just make it there. Roger can't be that nice guy or that humbled. But he actually is. And that's the bottom line. And I was unbelievable moment for me and something obviously I will cherish and remember. For the rest of my life man every single time. I have asked him somehow to help any of the causes or charities when we had floods when we had earthquakes during the Coronavirus to help me with the merchandise and to donate anything from his side. He has been more than trying to do that. He donated his racket for the very first time we had flyers around the earthquake. He donated his shoes. They're not pandemic he donated the shirt again. So super, super nice guy, super humble guy. And one of the main reasons I started my foundation was following his footsteps that what he's doing all over the world and trying to do biggest thing just not just being a tennis player and showing our responsibility as well. Obviously I'm not doing it at bigger scale like he is but on a smaller level. He was my inspiration for basically to start my own foundation and charity on the side as well. So yeah, unbelievable guy. No doubt.

Daniel Kiernan  1:33:35

It's such a lovely story of Sam and the I find myself have goosebumps actually listening to that story. You know, like it really resonated with me.

Aisam Qureshi  1:33:45

Yeah, man is I don't know. You know, being a Muslim man. We are told that not to share your prayers with anybody don't tell them that. What have you prayed for and stuff like that? And the night before the match? When I played him, it was something I shared afterwards with people that okay, we believe in Allah and God some people believe in the universe. Some people believe in other powers or whatever. And I remember praying the night before that, God please somehow I don't know how help me win this match against him. Because if I win, it's gonna change my life. But if Roger loses to me, it's not going to make any difference to him. Yeah, and then some people say you should have asked for something else man its amazing, but the fact what he said after the match I think was even bigger than the victory itself.

Daniel Kiernan  1:34:35

Absolutely. I remember when when we spoke a year and a half ago on the podcast. I remember you saying that that was the match that that elevated you to a different level back in your in your home country that that matches what made people know who Assam Qureshi really was?

Aisam Qureshi  1:34:56

Exactly. Yeah. Even though people didn't know About me, but everybody knew about Roger Federer, you know, yeah. And the fact that a Pakistani ended up playing him both of us thing and the fact we ended up beating him. Yeah, nobody ever I think can imagine back home in Pakistan that I've done that.

Daniel Kiernan  1:35:13

And there's and something that you've touched on a couple of things there but you because you've been around him for so many years, you know, on the in the public, obviously see him on TV and they see how he is. Is there anything that we don't know about him that you could share?

Aisam Qureshi  1:35:32

Something I really was very surprised and admire that the guy knew every news about every sport on this planet. In the locker room, he'll be talking like if you're an American, he'll be talking about basketball, baseball, American football. If he's talking to a Pakistani or an Indian, he'll be talking about cricket. Now he wants that one. This guy I want that one guy one. If he's talking to some Russia, they will be talking about ice hockey with them or Canadians. Like this guy knew everything about everything. Whether it's Formula One, MMA, football, badminton, swimming, this guy had knowledge about every sportsman and and to remember the names also of the cricketers is not easy. But picking maybe because he had a little background of being South African, his mom and dad raised cricket. I don't know. But you wouldn't expect him to be knowing about cricket, you know, who's playing who and what's happening in the world cup of cricket and stuff. But the guy knew about everything I didn't have I don't have that much knowledge about other sports. Another thing at least with me, I don't know about with the rest of the players every time he greeted you or said hello, or hi in different tournaments. He always called me with my name. Hey, Qureshi, how are you? You know, so I'm sure he did the same with other players also calling their names. And the fact being number one, he knew, at least my name I would imagine. And I would think so that he know all the other names as well of the guys because I think every guy I've seen him saying hi to him, I've always called him Roger. Hey, Roger, how are you? Hi, Roger what's happening, something like that, too. He knew everybody's name as well. Every time I've seen him say hello to somebody. He always started with a name. That shows respect, that shows humility, obviously, that showed how important other his peers are to him as well, that he's not taking them for granted also, and he knows every single one of them who is on the tour. And I think maybe it's something many people know, but shows only adds to his greatness. The guy and the player and the personality of the persona he is and that's why it's so well respected.

Daniel Kiernan  1:37:41

It's such an unbelievable skill. And, and actually, I've had a couple of, of run ins with Roger, after Junior days, knew very little in junior days, but let's saw him at some events. And Australian Open 2012 I was there with a couple of juniors. And it was Liam Brody was who we've heard from as well on this podcast. Liam was practicing warming him up to the semifinals on Rod Laver before he played Rafa and, and as we turned up to the to the reception to get the balls and walk down the tunnel, Paul Anacone was the is coach at the time, Paul was talking to Liam. And I found myself with Roger walking down the tunnel, and exactly what you said, he turned and he said, Dan, how are you? How's things? And this blew me away. And to this day, I still don't know how he knew this. He said, How's your how's your academy doing? And I was like, what, like, the Academy had been open for two years. You know, like if it were a bit more established now. And then as we walked down event, II then said, how's Simon Dixon, how's How's David Sherwood? He spoke very highly of Simon Dixon and his level and we had such a lovely conversation that was that was relevant to my world. You know, you know, and his his world is multiple multiple Grand Slam champions global icon. You know, we can't even imagine, you know, what, what Roger Federer's world is, but his ability to come into my world. And then the way the conversation then went, was okay, are you here with the juniors, great, you know, which ones are coming through? I actually hit with a guy called Dominic Thiem he said a few weeks ago, and at the time team was a junior he said I can he's going to be good because he's the one that goes I've got to watch it for that guy. You know, he's he's on his way. And it was such a lovely conversation that made me feel that I was part of the conversation and that ability, that ability is really special. So you're not Thanks for sharing your stories. My last bit. And this is not easy, because there's so many words that we can use for Roger Federer. But what are the one or two words that you will always use and remember about Roger Federer and his and his impact on the world of tennis?

Aisam Qureshi  1:40:20

Bro, to be honest, we have seen and we will see a lot of legends in sporting world in the tennis world. But this guy is a global icon. Without the doubt. I will rate him and I do rate him right up there with Jordan. Muhammad Ali. Tiger Woods. I think the fourth guy probably Yeah, Michael Schumacher and this guy who has elevated the world of sports the world of tennis, though that these guys had on their sports and globally to make them Dead games in their sport popular Roger is right there. For me, he's one of the greatest athletes of all times and if not the greatest. He's right there and global icon and hands down easily

Daniel Kiernan  1:41:08

A global icon he absolutely is. And for me, I'll be honest, I can't wait to listen back and I think I smiled throughout you know, every conversation I had the stories the reminiscing and yeah, just I wanted more it was it was difficult. I said to myself, eight to 10 minutes each guest and it was really difficult to keep to that and I didn't always but but the one person who should have won the competition for being the superfan is is his with me. I can't believe she didn't apply. Maybe it's because she knew that she was coming on the show anyway. But literally, I have watched Vicki climbing over furniture, hiding under pillows hiding in different situations, not speaking, you know, turning the TV off within within seconds of the 2019 final against Novak Djokovic the TV was off. She couldn't bear to look at Novak Djokovic celebrate the victory over Roger Federer. So, welcome to the show. And Roger Federer, his biggest fan, Vicki,

Victoria Kiernan  1:42:17

I think I have to be definitely quite up there. And I haven't forgiven Novak yet for that final. I'm still, as Mark said, talking about it. He had I don't think I had two nights without sleep. But it's I still feel that pain to this day. That's for sure. But I mean, I don't think I can really add any more stories to what's already been said some lovely, lovely stories. And, and actually so many similarities throughout it. We had a few with people saying they couldn't believe that they knew my name or they stopped and spoke to my mum. And you know, we see him on the television. And he comes across as such a lovely guy. And it's really nice to hear that actually off the court. He was just exactly the same.

Daniel Kiernan  1:42:58

Yeah, well, I think when when all's said and done. And obviously it's slightly different when you've won 20 grand slams, but people do remember you for what you've won, but people will remember how you made them feel, you know, when it comes to a personal relationship. And that was a big takeaway from me. And I guess, because I'd had my own person two personal interactions. I didn't say the second one. The second one was just at Wimbledon in 2019. And as I walked through the the players canteen area with my tray with my sushi rolls, I'm about to sit down. Roger's there, you know, when he was it was like there was like this, this aura around him. And again, just as I walked past he was looking, he looked up, gave me a smile, Hey Dan, how are you? You know, and it was it was very, very simple. And he made me and my two interactions that I've had with him since he's been this global icon. He has made me feel that and we talked about that, you know, earlier on with the guests. And that was the continuous story that came around. And that is that is what people that have come across him will remember how he made them feel. And that's more important than any any trophy that's been one

Victoria Kiernan  1:44:13

What I've always found really interesting though we that's on like a one to one personal level. But you put him in a stadium in a tennis court, all throughout his career that he had the crowd behind him. I can't think of one match off the top of my head where everyone was rooting for his opponent, you could I don't think that's been the same if you're talking about Serena or Djokovic. The crowd loves an underdog but for some reason with Federer all throughout his career, you felt that the crowd was always rooting for him.

Daniel Kiernan  1:44:45

I think it's been similar in other sports, I think. And this is the one it was ironic that I think I said it to Liam, and I've tried it every day since when I've put Roger into my phone every day since it hasn't autocorrected to Tiger. So It was completely bizarre. It was, I swear there was somebody somebody watching over. I tried it. It didn't work on mine. No, it hasn't on mine since but it happened three times. And Tiger Woods, I think is a good example. Because he's a global icon in the in the, in the world of golf, you go anywhere the crowds are following Tiger, they're supporting Tiger, but he doesn't have the bit that Roger has off the off the court, you know, people aren't going to remember their interactions. And the way that Tiger made them feel the way that Roger did. And I think that's what's also so special about him. Because part of us and I've had this discussion many times with many people do need to be a bit of an arse to be the best in others. And there's almost, if we go by Alex Ferguson, you know, these sort of characters? Oh, yeah, that's because he's the best he has to be like that. And Roger's almost blown that out of the water, it's like, well, no, you can be the best, and you can be a good guy. And you can be humble and make people feel good about themselves. You know, and I saw an interview that that Roger did in the Laver Cup yesterday. And he was saying, people were telling him he had to be a bit nastier. And he had to be a bit of this. And he said, he never felt himself. And when things really started to happen for him, was when he just said, Look, this is who I am, this is who I'm gonna be, you know, like it or lump it. And then he was comfortable in his own skin. And I think what we've seen or the word he used was authentic, you know, and him being authentic has led to him having the success on the court but also off the court in terms of you know, the the endorsements, and you know, who who doesn't want Roger Federer representing their brand?

Victoria Kiernan  1:46:43

Yeah, he really has been a sponsors dream has any and I guess we've been talking about it for for so long in the tennis world, the end is near the end is near and he's played much longer than we thought he would. But it still still hurts still hurts now. And I think when he announced when it would be my first reaction was, I can't believe we're not going to say goodbye, give him a big send off at Wimbledon. He's not going to be at the slams. But actually thinking about now how he's been talking about this week, I think it's going to be well, firstly, it's a goodbye that no other player has really done before playing with your rivals. There's been speculation in the last few days that his last match where we'll be playing doubles with, with Rafa Nadal, which is going to be argued his biggest rival over the years, but I can't think of a better way for him to say goodbye to tennis being on the same side of the court, the same team. As one of your longest rivals in the game. It's incredibly special. But Dan, you've been asking all the questions. We've had so many lovely stories. And you've asked the guests this, but what are the words that you think of when you think of Roger Federer?

Daniel Kiernan  1:47:53

Well, you've just turned it on me. I've turned out to know what those words naturally I think those natural words do come out. When you think of Federer, you know, you do think of classy you do think think of elegant you think of talented. And the bit the bid for me on that is, is those came easy to Roger. You know, that was very clear. I mentioned it earlier, I saw a video of him as a ball kid, age 11. And he oozed class and elegance and an aura as an 11 year old kind of strutting around as a ball kid you know, as normally these bulkheads are nerdy, and they're running around, and they're a bit nervous. So I think those are very natural and obvious. And I don't disagree at all of them. But the more difficult words and the skills that Rogers had to work on, and I think these, this is an important message for young tennis players. Because Roger Federer was highly emotional, he struggled to tolerate his emotions, you know, he lacked a bit of resilience, he lacked sharp tolerance, you know, he lacked a little bit of fight in matches, you know, there was, and were talking 1617 years old here, where these things were, were said about him, but also the facts backed that up, and that was a big area that he has worked on and to go on and have the career that he had to win 20 Grand Slams to be world number one for the amount of weeks that he was. You don't do that without grit, determination, resilience, mental toughness, you know, adaptation to to different game styles. You know, he added the high backhand drive when he used to slice and he's the earlier part of his career in all of these areas. So I'd actually like to choose those words of grit and resilience, of determination and fight because I often think They're not associated with Roger Federer, which I think is a little bit unfair to him, because those are the skills that he's really worked on to hone his skills and then to go on and have the career that he's had.

Victoria Kiernan  1:50:13

And I think there's so many lessons we'll all be. We've all taken and we'll still be learning from Roger Federer. And I think the only thing left to say is just a thank you. Thank you. The hours and hours and hours of entertainment, the highs, the lows, the jumping up and down on the couch, the incredible jaw dropping shots. We've watched him hit through the years, the inspiration, he's going to be massively missed in the world of tennis. For me, he's irreplaceable. And it's the end of an era.

Daniel Kiernan  1:50:48

Absolutely well said and a big thank you to all of you as ever, for listening. Enjoy the Laver Cup. Enjoy the rest of the tennis season. We will be back as always, next week. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables