#190: French Open 2023 Preview

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 190 of Control the Controllables. And I'm bringing this one to you from Paris where we have the second Grand Slam of the year. The French Open, the sun is shining, the clay courts are playing a little bit faster this year. The tennis balls however, aren't they are fluffing up. There's going to be lots of shock results as we always get on the clay courts. And of course, Rafael Nadal isn't here on the men's side. Is it going to be Iga Swiatek's third French Open. There's lots for us to discuss and who better than our amazing panelists to come on and discuss all things French Open 2023 I've got my usual suspects, Freddie Nielsen, that Danish Davis Cup captain and Wimbledon doubles champion of 2012. He gives us some great insights into Holger Rune is it going to be his first Grand Slam, Emily Webley Smith, 20 years plus now on the tour, still making finals of big events. She comes on and shares as she always does so, so gracefully and so well. And then Kieron Vorster, the Piers Morgan of tennis podcasts Liam Broady's fitness coach has been around for many, many years. And I'm delighted to say we've had two newcomers onto the panel this year, Gabby Dabrowski, who's been as high as number four in the world of WTA. doubles. She has made semi finals of Grand Slams, she's won masters 1000s She'll be looking to win her first Grand Slam here in Paris. She brings a different angle and insight as well. And then the coach of Iga Swiatek when she won her first. Roland Garros Piotr Sierzputowski and but to have him come on and get a little bit of an idea of what was going through Iga's mind how she thinks in those big moments. And he's now coaching the number 32 seed. Shelby Rogers. Honestly, I'm not just saying this, you cannot miss this episode. You have to share it far and wide. It's brilliant. It's entertaining. And it's incredibly insightful. And I know you're going to love it. I'm going to pass you over to our French Open 2023 panelists. So a big welcome to our French Open panelists How you doing guys

Gaby Dabrowski  02:44

Good Thanks, Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  02:46

And we have a what a big a big panel that we have. So we've got our first time as Piotr and Gaby a big special welcome to you guys. It won't be easy getting a word in edgeways with the with the panelists that have been here for so long. So make sure you're fighting your corner as well. But thank you very much for joining us and as a starting point. And, Gabby, I'm going to jump to you first. There's been a default on the ATP tour today. Some people will think that it's down to the clay courts, you know, the umpire refuse to get out of the chair Ymer lost the plot lost his serve, smacked his racket against the umpires chair got defaulted. And we saw in Rome as well. It feels like these, the umpires are getting a few of these calls wrong on a clay court. So from from a player's point of view, is it time for us to move into full electronic line calling?

Gaby Dabrowski  03:44

Yeah, I would love to see electronic line calling everywhere because I think it just makes those dramatic moments, a thing of the past really, and you can just focus on playing and you can't really argue with a computer and you don't lose your cool over things that should be completely trivial. And I think we've also seen that bad line calls can actually change the outcome of the match. So they it is important to get it right as best as we can. I know that electronic line calling is not a perfect science yet, but I do think that the more that it's implemented in particular on clay, I think it'll get there. And today, I mean, that was I saw the clip just a few hours ago on Twitter. Where Ymer serves his opponent returns cross court. The ball takes a really bad bounce, Ymer Shanks a forehand long but go straight to the mark and circles it but the umpire refuses to come down and you think why why not? I've seen umpires get out of their chair and come and look at a mark even without being prompted if they're just not sure if it's close. So because it's not like the point continued on and then Ymer was you know, upset that that ball was out like He just missed a forehand and then walk to the mark. Like we all do that on clay all the time. Obviously unfortunate reaction that got him defaulted and rightfully so. I mean, you can't be smashing the umpires chair with your racket. We all know that. But it shouldn't have happened in the first place. So yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  05:14

but does electric line colesville and PR I'll bring you in on this does it make tennis too sterile? You know, almost the, the the human error that happens in all of us want to watch that anyone that's, you know, heard about that today? It gets them rushing to social media gets the watching tennis, it's entertainment. Obviously, we don't want to see players stressful and behaving in such ways. But, you know, maybe if we take that human error, away Piotr, then then maybe we lose a little bit of the entertainment value that potentially comes with tennis.

Piotr Sierzputowski  05:50

Absolutely. As a coach, I totally agree with Gabby about as fun watching tennis drama as necessary. If we don't have it, there is not a lot left for me. Because matches are long, everything is extending. So this is actually pretty interesting that we can experience those so I agree fully with full electronic system. But yeah it kills a little bit of vibe of fighting, you know for marks and pushing the limit with reps and bringing them down then they are tired. They don't want to do this again. And it's like it's a chess game,

Daniel Kiernan  06:27

And it doesn't show up because fret Freddy you worked with Ymer, you know, not not so not so long ago and I guess what I saw watching as I'm sat there, drinking my hot chocolate in beautiful weather or you know, with no stress in the world, if only but you get the you get the picture. I'm sat there said dude, chill out. It's five all in all, like, it's very easy to have that perspective. But doesn't it just bring home the stresses and the realities of a tennis player? So we take I don't know his exact ranking, but I would imagine he's around 80 in the world. You know, he's probably not won that many matches this year, is fighting for his life to get these wins on the board, in our stay in the in the Grand Slams, whatever it might be. And it may be makes us react in such ways.

Freddie Nielsen  07:17

Oh, just so he I guess, was his best ranking. Just a great job there. So he's actually in a good moment. But he did come back from just having been injured since Miami. And I mean, let's be honest, it's a moment of madness. He nobody's gonna defend it. He's not gonna defend it. It happens sometimes inexplicable stuff happens. But like you said, there's so much more that goes on between the ears than what the fans get to see. And what what is going on there on one can only speculate. But yeah, it certainly let's be honest, it's obviously not just that ball, he's reacting to because nobody in a calm collected frame of mind is going to do that about one point or one bad call. It's obviously triggered something in him and then yeah, the House of Cards has fallen down.

Piotr Sierzputowski  08:12

I would have a question then. Because even in Madrid and Rome, it looked like referees been on microphones constantly. Maybe they are Netflix. I don't know what's going on. But on.

Daniel Kiernan  08:25

One umpire,

Piotr Sierzputowski  08:27

like no, no,

Daniel Kiernan  08:28

I Lionni

Piotr Sierzputowski  08:29

we had a lot of a lot of situations like that. Lastly, where there was they've been discussing, like they made a show. So for me the question Is it not going too far right now. So those situation can trigger next situation because you are afraid like, oh, okay, so I saw an image before happening. That was stupid. So I have to push and fight for my rights right now. Instead of like being relaxed, okay, that guy's making cool decision. Good. He's good. He's calm, and he's doing what he should do, instead of making a show as a rep. And every player is coming back to the room and watching whatever is happening on the tour overall. So I don't think we can, you know, like, not being affected by it.

Freddie Nielsen  09:09

I think in every sport, a good umpire is an umpire you don't notice. And I think in tennis is the same if you don't realize who's the umpire, the guy has done a good job and sorry, and maybe he feels that he has a valid case not to go down and check them out. But his job is also you talking about drama. His job is actually to not create drama, and he could have easily diffused the situation by going down showing the mark, even though he might feel this unnecessary. Then he could have read the situation. He has a calm pulse. He's sitting in his chair, he realizes the players are at pulse 200 A lot is at stake. Maybe he feels it unnecessary, but if he goes down he can defuse the situation and there's no incident and we move on.

Daniel Kiernan  09:53

And talking of modern day technology, you know, electronics I did read as I was I was going through the, the bump fun that you get with the French Open and I saw that they are trying to make a stance you know, which maybe finally, I think what was we're looking at in terms of social media content, you know that. And Kieron you're, you're a big tweeter, you know, and obviously you keep it within the boundaries you, you act as you, you know, they your opinions, you're happy to put it out there. But there is a real problem out there, you know, that players, players coaches I even saw today I think it was Zizou Bergs' dad had posted something that he got completely abused or families are getting abuse. So what it says is that there's an anti online harassment and hate speech tool that's available to all the players this year. And it seems like it's something that they are going to start trying to take check seriously. And it's about time.

Emily Webley-Smith  10:54

Yeah, I mean, it is about time, you're not going to stop it. And the only way you stop to come off social media, you know, if you if you're going to go on there, no matter what you're right, you've got to have thick skin. I mean, Piers Morgan is a classic, you know, the stuff he writes and he gets abused, but you just get a rise above it. Interestingly, I saw Djokovic, who get's most of the abuse on the male side didn't have a female side, actually. Cam Norri was, I think, on then in the top five, top six, but it's look at the end of the day, it's water off a duck's back, you're gonna if you're going to put that out there on social media, you've got to you've got to expect the backlash. Tennis players get the most the most abuse out of all sports. Which I read today as well. So because obviously there's big backing behind it, it's probably one of the highest. That's where it comes from. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, a lot of racial abuse. And I think it's even worse, when you know, that they haven't looked at the players lower down the rankings who are playing challengers futures, that get into that,

Daniel Kiernan  12:00

But there's no identity is that the point is, I could make a Twitter account called rain clouds tonight. And nobody knows that it's me. You know. So

Emily Webley-Smith  12:11

that's what I'm 15. You've got already Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  12:14

I won't say any more names. But in terms of in terms of you, Emily, it I would imagine it's something that you've received. A you know, it's Kieron's sat there said, it's water off a duck's back, is it? You know, is it something that actually, when you're already very vulnerable, you know, you've had a tough loss, you know, everything that goes with losses, we all know that pain, that pain is deep, you know, it cuts really deep. And then you jump online, and you have all sorts of things being flung at you, how does it make you feel? And how do you handle it as a player?

Emily Webley-Smith  12:49

Yeah, I think it's one of those occasions when you're literally, you're at your low point when you when you said when you finished and whether you're pulling down or whether recovery is down or whatever, and you check in your phone. And then there's literally like 100 messages just abusing you after you've lost or if you've been in a winning position and then lost or you've been expected to win or whatever. And it's more what they say, rather than the people who are actually saying it, and how they say it. And we've all read it from different players who have then posted it or whatever. And it's literally like, pages of people who have been blocked on my Instagram or my Facebook messaging, but it goes into it goes into another inbox originally, but then you still have to read some of those messages sometimes. And yeah, I mean, I think most of the time, you have a pretty thick skin with it, because you know that it's irrelevant. But there's a couple of comments, particularly if something's going on in your personal life, which they don't know which with which they touch. And yeah, it really, it can really sting you. But I mean, thick skin is all very well and good when you say it, but it's not so easy. When you're, I don't know, in the middle of nowhere, he lost his height match. And you know, it's a it's a tough moment for you.

Daniel Kiernan  14:08

And it's an extra it's an extra thing that you know, mental health, we talk about it a lot, thank god nowadays, but when we're talking about the challenges of being on tour already, and and it's an extra thing that can put somebody in a dark place or can send them into into a different area and, and certainly one and I've experienced that this year, with the two week tournaments now that they're playing, you know, the Masters events that I mean, it felt to me like Rome was like a six week tournament. It was like when his Rome is still happening. Oh my god, and it's still raining in Rome, you know, and it just went and it went and it went, who likes it in all commercially? I think it seems to work otherwise it wouldn't happen. Gaby as a player, two week tournaments, what do you think?

Gaby Dabrowski  15:00

As a player who plays predominantly doubles, yeah, not my favorite thing in the world. There's a lot of waiting around. If you lose it early, there's a ton of time before the next event, even when you're winning, okay, you may have days off here and there, but I'm sorry, with the scoring format that we have having no ad and the super tiebreakers, you don't really need that many days off, because you're not being pushed physically to the limits as you might be in a slam, especially if you're planning to events. What I will say is I would probably encourage more players who play predominantly singles to play more doubles, because they have more time to do so. And they have more recovery in between. They could play singles, one day doubles the next day, sometimes they may get doubled up. But if they win, they'll have a day off. So in terms of scheduling, I think it helps but at the same time, I would say the tournaments like Madrid and Rome have not figured out their scheduling yet. Last year in Madrid, we had a disaster with scheduling where Jess Pegula had to play singles, and then doubles quarterfinal and semifinal this same day, I think and it was like, how do you have a two week event and that ends up happening? You had all the time in the world. So I think there's a lot of work to be done on the match schedule plan, which I know they're done well in advance months and months in advance with the tournament director of broadcast WTA, the supervisors all that. But yeah, I mean, we haven't really had too many issues, Indian Wells in Miami, I would say with scheduling. So maybe the tournaments that are going to be new two week advance, need to look at them and see what they've been doing right for a long time so far.

Daniel Kiernan  16:37

What about yourself as a coach Piotr? For what your I know, we had a we had a chat offline last week in Soto and I know that, you know, you, you you saw saw it in a bit of a different way. And maybe they could use the time a little bit more effectively.

Piotr Sierzputowski  16:52

Yeah, I think two weeks event would be great if the game in the first week would be condensed. And then in the second week, we would have more events of lower ranked tournaments. And even on the same side, why not organize to 50 on the same side? So this this is just a logistical question of making more games making more matchplay because I've actually canceled my WTA TV last week because in Ronda, I had two or three matches to watch through the week, what's the point of using the subscription? And I'm a coach and I shouldn't actually do this. But you know, like, if you think logically like there is no content, its second week of a big tournament, and there are only five matches through the week five four singles four doubles. Thank you for coming, that's all. And if we actually have the second week events, which are going to happen, and hopefully it will, because 125 Okay, it's an option for WTA some Challengers in on the men's side, but it's still different product, it's not the same. It's not even made commercially on the same level as WTA or ATP events, then it's just just boring. And it's not interesting scheduling was terrible. As Gaby said, like, nothing was working there. Well, and everybody is just tired, what to do with yourself. It's raining, go go to another rainy place and play another tournament. It's not an option. They're like, what to do with yourself. That's why I came to Soto. That was the best decision.

Daniel Kiernan  18:22

Well, that's that's what everyone needs to do. Screw the 250s get get get yourself to Soto. But in terms in terms of the first week to sort of clarify and Freddie, I'd love to hear what you think about this. I think what I've seen is, you know, can you almost get to quarterfinals stage, you know, so and maybe in the doubles, the doubles, you always get into semi finals, maybe you know you you're basically in the first week getting to the point where the second week becomes a little bit like slam quarterfinals onwards, or last 16 onwards. And then you've got all of those courts put on another event there. You know, if people want to stay you've got you've got the fans coming in with the ground passes, they can watch players that are knocked out. Not even that early. Because right now unless you lose first round you pretty much can't play the next week anyway. What What What's your thoughts on that?

Freddie Nielsen  19:18

Yeah, I like what I heard there. I thought there were good ideas, creating some valuable content and maybe also give some some opportunities for the lower end guys. I think Casper Ruud also made a point about players having to bring their teams for longer periods of time and not having options and then paying for them and it's I don't know, I'm also not a big fan of it. I didn't I lost interest as well during the week I didn't see the point. And especially then when they ended up having horrible scheduling and this then it really just becomes what is really the point. So so yeah. When I first saw the schedule Is the idea to make it two weeks I was skeptical and now having seen it in, in real life. I'm not more convinced. So yeah, I like those ideas. I hadn't thought about it myself. But I like it. Yeah, do something else make some make some more content, why not give give the people something to watch because maybe with time it will grow to have the same kind of importance as Indian Wells and Miami who basically are unofficially the fifth and sixth lamb. But just don't think Madrid and Rome are big enough for it yet. But maybe in time it will be who knows. But yeah, I was unimpressed

Daniel Kiernan  20:39

And get Piotr's subscription back.

Emily Webley-Smith  20:42

Yeah. Yeah, I just from my perspective, from being the ranking that I'm at the a two week event actually give they do give an opportunity with the second week with there being a 125. During Madrid, there was a 125 in St. Malo, and during Rome, there was a 125. The second week in Florence. Florence was obviously easier to get to St. Mallow was a nightmare for a lot of players. But regardless of that happening, the difference in the length, from everyone's point of view, was an absolute nightmare as regards to scheduling from Madrid, and for all of us players that were wanting to play that tournament and the supervisors and everybody else nobody had a clue what was going on with, with players who were still in Madrid or players that were still in Rome. And both of those 125s, especially St. Mallow, were like, it was the correct the difference in how the list looked from Friday to Saturday was absolutely ridiculous. It looked, I mean quallies of St. Mallow was was way weaker than any challenger I've played this year. So I agree that, that there definitely needs to be other events, perhaps like you said, on the same site. But I think with that, you also have to bear in mind that although it's an opportunity for us, it also messes everyone's schedule up with that second week, even if you're not playing the two week event. And I think about you Gabs but between for GAVI between Madrid and Rome with them both being back to back with them being back to back tournaments, but with them both being too weak event, there was so much dead time where they're assuming that people are European, and can just go to a European base

Daniel Kiernan  22:23

Did somebody says Soto?

Emily Webley-Smith  22:27

Well, if the whole world could come to you, it could have been a better idea than where everyone went, literally looking for places to train, and trying to organize things last minute, because they can't plan it because you don't know how you're gonna get on. And, you know, it was it's very, very tricky if players are from Brazil, or from Ozzy or from wherever, in that amount of time to, to go back in the middle of the season. So I do think, even cost with accommodation, and with the team like that the guy said is really difficult if you're not sure what's going on. And Gabby having been seated and having her by also doesn't doesn't play to like the first Thursday of that week. So if you lose early, even the week before Madrid, you've got almost 10 days before your first match. I was like you're not played yet. I've not played yet

Daniel Kiernan  23:17

all the Sunday, some people that Sunday in the doubles. Yeah.

Emily Webley-Smith  23:21

Like it's crazy. And then the rest of the year. Obviously, there's other times when it's so jam packed, you're flying, long haul overnight to, you know, to play the next day. So yeah, I think that was I think it's an interesting point with adding extra events on the same site. But I think they've also got to be careful that it doesn't affect it to that extent that no one knows what's going on with any of the list.

Piotr Sierzputowski  23:45

Yeah, but there are probably like the ways to make it happen even with separating two lists, one which is made in advance for players who are not playing the tournament, at the moment and one which can, you know, be created at the end of the time of the first week, where players can sign Okay, we are here we are playing Let's sign but of course, it's there are some difficulties they need to be, there would have to be a lot of things to consider. But still, I think like without those bigger events, like you said, even 125 everybody signed but nobody is coming in the hands because they cannot or they don't want to and this is bad, because it's actually affecting the tournament. So actually building one another event on site would could be the answer to this question. Yeah.

Freddie Nielsen  24:34

And by the way with the content, we're also like, yeah, there are the smaller events smaller but smaller compared to the masters 1000s. And obviously a tournament like Bourdeax had some had some really good players, especially because there were some former slam champions on the men's side that that had lower rankings again, but it doesn't really get out to the tennis world. It's not really shown on TV. It For for the average fan and in America, there's no way of following that tournament and stuff. And there's no perfect scenario. There's no perfect schedule. But I think that there, the two week tournaments are just drowning us in, in nothingness I feel and I think maybe it wouldn't work, but I think it would be worth the chance because the smaller events are obviously fine. And it's great to have opportunities for players but from a, from a fan perspective and selling the sport like, unfortunately, the challenges that like you had to do you have Murray playing Wawrinka

Daniel Kiernan  25:39

The second two then you have Thiem, Gasquet

Freddie Nielsen  25:42

Who's Gonna see that, who's gonna see that I mean, you might

Daniel Kiernan  25:45

Well, it was packed but but the walk mean, the ones that there's obviously watching on TV, and there's watching in person, but, but for me my personal experience of Bourdeaux going from the masters to to borador It was really nice. The crowd was completely packed, every match center court singles, doubles didn't matter. Not a seat, not a seat in sight. We had routine. So the boy's first match was Wednesday final was Saturday, thank you very much, you know, turned up, warmed up, did our routine played a match, got back on court worked on some things, you know, had some dinner went through the March next day, boom, boom, it was such a nice feeling to to have that, you know, it felt a lot less sterile. If I'm honest, it you know, sometimes I think these big events can feel a little sterile. And it's not as not as kind of warm and homely as that those sorts of events. So I actually think there was so many positives, in terms of what happened there at that club. I mean, they had, you know, Centuro came and did a workshop with the club members, you know, you had exhibition matches going on there was in terms of for the local community. And in terms of what the content was in live in person, it was, it was phenomenal. It would have been nice for people to have watch that on TV as well.

Freddie Nielsen  27:09

And I'm sure example, was was the same. I mean, they they had a great event that more people showing up. And that's great. I'm not taking anything away from that. Yeah. But the global audience of TV of tennis fans, they're really missing out on that unless they're, like, his super fans that stream it or whatever. And it's just, it's a good story that doesn't really come out. So I don't think that these two weeks tournaments are way to move forward. But that's just my personal opinion.

Emily Webley-Smith  27:38

It doesn't help when you got the Tennis Channel starting pickleball and paddle tennis and not even showing proper tennis. It's shocking. Renee Stubbs just put something up on Twitter today, just saying she's done with it. as well. Yeah. And just on the terms of these these events, yeah, the two weeks, I mean, obviously, when I traveled with, back in the day, there were one week events, and I also think players like momentum. And, you know, if you take you know, if you take Casper Ruud, he had two days off before he played the semi, I think, you know, that when you can select the stages, you know, the planning that the three sets, they got, you know, the guys can get up and go again tomorrow. I don't know, you know, they're having more days off than they haven't planned, the static and then on that, I also think that you got to be careful of having events in the second week of those events do you have in case you devalue the brand or or day event, so you know, you could hypothetically have the Djokovices losing first round and in one of these and going well, I'm  not gonna play again. And then that comes a scheduling nightmare because they're going to want to play him on center or plan on the show court and he's obviously going to get more people watching him than they are going to get watching, you know, what, what the actual tournament is. But yeah, I think, you know, maybe making making them 10 Day events, you know, starting on the Wednesday finishing the following week, or just do it from you know, qualities maybe maybe qualities on like Thursday or Friday and then the event goes Saturday Sunday. Gabby's a player Emily's player looking at from their perspective yet not there's not right. So I think there's a lot I think that's a lot for both to look at and get around the table and get it sorted. And then also they've got to start off making you know tennis look a little bit more appealing to the audience because the numbers are down globally. We hit on that as the Australian Open when Renee Stubbs was trying to say that the ratings are through the roof it's got to be looked at and and I also think like superstars need to do a lot more you know, when you when you look at the Netflix, the the tennis versus the golf you know, you've got you've got McIlroy, you know, putting in all the hours and everything into golf and having that conversation you're not we're not seeing the big superstars like Djokovic or Nadal having that same impact for the public key and I think that there may be going about it the wrong way.

Piotr Sierzputowski  30:03

My question is actually, it's about big brands, or it's about smaller brands nationally in their countries to build behind the scenes to show what we are doing. Because it's actually connecting with those bad messages or like hate in the in the web. Same for me. If players gonna show more of their life, people are gonna feel a simulate with them gonna be sorry, when they're gonna lose instead of being, you know, angry on them because they lost the bed. But they don't know what's happening. Like we said, they don't know what's happening behind the scenes, because all we show is one picture 20 posts from the tournament, on Instagram, and that's all and it's just not a story. And it's not interesting. People in those times watching shorts video, don't want to watch match, which lasts three hours, they want to see something quick, something nice, what's happening, even if somebody is crying, they are interested, I know a lot of people, my friends, for working in corporations, they are willing to spend two, three hours a day watching different people live and why we are not sharing that, which is probably something interesting for them. For us. It's everyday basic. So it's nothing to show, but for them. Who knows.

Gaby Dabrowski  31:18

I think that's a really good point. And it leads to the bigger question of how much do we show of ourselves on social media, because for most of us, it's a highlight reel. And it's not showing our authentic, vulnerable selves. But at the same time, when you're an athlete, you've been told your entire lives to not show vulnerability. And that vulnerability is weakness, and that people can use that against you. So I think as an athlete, you have that element of, okay, I'm just going to show that I'm strong and everything's great. And I'm practicing hard. And we're doing this that's fun. Okay, a little bit off court, but you're in the gym and all this stuff, and you don't really show your struggles. But I think what you're saying Piotr is like, people relate to the struggles. Everyone is struggling with something, whether it's something back home with family, whether it's something financial, whether it's something professional, whether it's something with your friends, like there's always something going on. And so I feel like I think you're right, there's something to be said for being able to describe what's going on in our lives in a way that's relatable to other people. And that, you know, as an athlete, you're not just this hero that shows up that you've got crap that's going on even with Ymer today, like you said, Friday, maybe he's got someone else going on. And he was just triggered. And we don't even know why he exploded like that. It probably wasn't just over a line call. Maybe it was something else. Maybe not. Maybe I'm speaking out of turn and it was just a bad day. But you know what I mean, it would be good to know these things about us. I think

Daniel Kiernan  32:46

My the two examples that jumped to mind for me, Andy Murray was not that loved until 2012. And he when he lost the Wimbledon final to Roger Federer and, and he cried his eyes out live on global television. And, and everybody felt every single part of that. And from that day, he's been able to open up and show his personality in lots of different ways. So that was an act of vulnerability. A bit of an off topic one Freddie, I know you'll love him because he's an ex Liverpool player, Graem Souness. Football player Graem Souness soon as he has been my most hated pondered it for football. For the last 20 years. He annoys me, he used to be my big Newcastle United fan. He was a Newcastle manager, this guy, like honestly did my head in like every time he was on TV. Two days ago, he was on he was on TV, I saw the clip and he was crying his eyes out. And he's he's he's swimming the channel. I think he's age like 65, 70 Amazing story. And there's a real story behind that from a close family friend who has a really rare disease illness, and live on national television this really hard he was known as like, a real hard guy on the football pitch. And that's what he came across as a pundit as well showed 30 seconds of vulnerability. My 20 year opinion has completely changed. You know, I'm now in his corner, and now completely in his corner, you know, and I think those those things jumped out to me.

Emily Webley-Smith  34:30

Well, why calling a vulnerability? Well, I mean, you wanting to face human? I mean, I don't think it's showing any sign of vulnerability. I just

Daniel Kiernan  34:39

Showing the human side isn't it? It shows the human side which vulnerability is we're all vulnerable, but a lot of people don't show that human side but that's the side that so many of us connect to. You know, when we're when we're talking about the sport having having challenges, difficulties to get people into the sport. We're in our eyes, eyeballs on the sport again, so many things, you know, people relate and connect to human beings, whether that's vulnerability, whether that's anger, whether that's frustration, whether they, you know, it's it's human emotion and human ways that we all connect to I think

Gaby Dabrowski  35:17

Vulnerability is not a negative word is just, it means real. And that you showed up and you put yourself in position for other people to criticize, you know, like that saying about, it's not the critic accounts. Like it's Yeah, I don't think vulnerability means anything bad. Yeah, no, I

Emily Webley-Smith  35:33

agree. Great.

Daniel Kiernan  35:35

Guys, we could go for we could turn this into all sorts of all sorts of topics, but we're here for the French Open 2023. So I'm going to we're going to start moving into that area. And storylines, you know, we're going to get an A, I want us to start on the, on the women's side, we have a big three, I believe we do. finally have it. You know, we love talking, we love labeling in this sport. You know, we've had that, you know, the big three, or the big four on the men's side for all these years. And it feels like there's a big three starting to show themselves. on the women's side. Certainly, I believe this year, that the three that we're talking about have been in the final of all of the big events so far this year. So So Piotr, what what storylines should we be looking for? You know, is it going to be about the big three? Is it going to be about someone else coming through? You know, give us some inside information? What should we be looking for on the women's side this year, the French Open?

Piotr Sierzputowski  36:38

Actually, I've been lucky today watching all of those top three players practicing, so I saw it a little bit. I don't know, Gaby if you play today on side, but for me, if the condition is gonna be like that windy, it's actually pretty quick this year compared to last years. It's I don't know why why, of course, balls are dead. They're not flying after two. Probably two, three minutes of kidding. So so it's difficult to actually win the point. Even the points are quick, but it puts for me, for example, rybakina is actually contender for today to this this time for the trophy. Ego. Of course, always they're fighting because she loves playing on clay, and she's moving great. But if she gonna be injured, we don't know. She was kidding. Well today, but who knows what's gonna happen in two weeks events? And Sabalenka just smiling and crushing the bosses always in the practice. So it might be really, really tough battle there.

Daniel Kiernan  37:40

And was storylines. What are we looking for Freddie? You know, is there any any storylines that you see jumping up? You know, we've, we've been talking about last year, I think we were talking about Serena coming back at some point? We haven't we haven't seen that yet. We made that bold, bold prediction. You know, what, what should we be looking for? In the women's side this year?

Freddie Nielsen  38:02

I think the the women have been faced with some unfair situations, because a lot of the attention leading up to the French Open has been about not tennis, but about all sorts of other shenanigans that are really unnecessary. So I think that hopefully, the storyline will be that take, they can get a chance to just play proper tennis and not have to worry about if they play at midnight. Are they allowed to do a speech? Who does this? Who does that absolute nonsense. Just let them play proper tennis and let's let the rackets talk. And hopefully there won't be this. Talk off court. That hasn't been the case with men the last few weeks.

Daniel Kiernan  38:47

What about you, Emily? Where were we looking? You know, Freddie? Freddie mentioned that. Are we are we going to be talking about birthday cakes? Are we going to be talking about speeches on non speeches, but what are we what are we going to be talking about on the tennis court?

Emily Webley-Smith  39:04

Hopefully not but there's always some drama at the French so you never know. I actually had a conversation with Gabby today about the about the conditions and about whether rather quinoa and saddle Lenka are in a position where they can move well enough on the clay to stand up to the clay courters etc. And with how fast it is and with how it's difficult, more difficult to move because of that reason. With the wind and with there being less clay on the court then I think it is possible for either of them to win it. And we've seen it in years before with Sharapova and how hard she worked on her clay court movement to just turn it around and win the French when she did so I definitely think it's possible. But Iga's record obviously talk to itself. I would love personally somebody like Ons to win it. But those three have really shown shown what they're made of in the last however long and they've continued to do so it wasn't just like from Australia and then the wheel was came off. It's actually they've continued on a consistent basis to play very, very high level tennis.

Daniel Kiernan  40:12

And PR, I have to ask you, we can't have you on as the coach of ego when she first won Roland Garros, and not get some insight into this. She's lost, I believe three big matches to Rybakina. This year. I believe I believe there was an exhibition match at the end December, where she got blown away two and one or quite quite, quite comfortably. How does she deal with that, you know, as being the obviously there's the pressure of being the favorite, but then all of a sudden one of the rivalries that's starting to happen, she's coming second best in that rivalry so far, in 2023. So mentally, how is she got to deal with that?

Piotr Sierzputowski  40:56

I don't really know right. Now what she can do about it, because Rybakina is just playing well. It's not about ego, playing battle. Lee, of course, she has like everybody up and up and downs. But I would say that, actually, first tournament, I went with Iga at a Junior tournament Junior event, which is happening this week, which is Milan Junior event, Iga lost against Rybakina in the final, and that was probably the first lose against the Rybakina. Then she won a Strava. So she she was like, let's say, doing better than than Elena. But right now, it's tough. I think if the weather conditions gonna stay like that, and it's, I think right now, looking like it's going to be dry and going and going to be windy, then I think there it's not a mental battle anymore. You just need to go on the court and show that you are better. If it's going to be gonna get heavy and gonna get rainy. And it's gonna get slower than I think it got, we'll just go on the court and just we'll have fun and there's gonna be everything what you have to do

Daniel Kiernan  42:05

And Kieron. And can you see a winner coming from outside of those three? I know you mentioned Ons, but she's she the results wouldn't say that. You know, that's, you know, do you think that now we are genuinely talking about, you know, which which of those three is going to win? Which of those two is going to be in the final? You know, I know we we've made some bold statements over the years. I was going back to the Xavi M Elise on this on this show told us that Osaka was going to win as many Grand Slams as Serena Williams he couldn't see anything else. And then we haven't seen her for two years you know, so we know that things change very fast and it's not easy to stay in those positions. But can you can you see anyone truly outside of those those players right now?

Emily Webley-Smith  42:54

No, not at all. I mean, out of the three based on current form I would just go back to Sabalenka with a power game but yeah, I think yeah, difficult difficult to to go against them. I think the bigger gap between how they're performing right now and the rest and the you know, the other contenders have have had niggles and injuries going into slams. I can't I can't. I can't I can't do it. I'd like to I'd like to say to someone like Coco Gauff can come through and and do some damage. That not the current form

Freddie Nielsen  43:33

isn't really that far fetched as if one of the other top three girl is one that is not one of the top three wins. I don't think it's that far fetched. I think they have pretty good depth of the women's side of the tub. Yeah, there might stand out but I don't think it will take a surprise of of a lifetime. Or maybe I'm just wrong.

Emily Webley-Smith  43:52

Okay name one

Freddie Nielsen  43:55

Gauff. I don't think it'd be too weird if Pegula won a slam at one point. Gonna see the hole. Now

Emily Webley-Smith  44:00

we're talking about the friends. Let's talk about the friend. Exactly. That's the nightclub talking about the friends like this tournament, can can can upset the top three in this talk. Based on current form? Well,

Freddie Nielsen  44:13

I mean, based on current forum, yes and no, but and

Emily Webley-Smith  44:17

give me a yes or no. Yes, of course. Okay.

Freddie Nielsen  44:19

I mean, if it's a yes or no, of course. I mean, of course you can.

Emily Webley-Smith  44:24

On current form. Of course you can.

Freddie Nielsen  44:28

I mean, that's the you know, as well that there's no such thing. I mean, just in basic sporting terms, nothing is given before you play the match, but I mean, are you going to fall off your chair, if you see her beat one of those three?

Emily Webley-Smith  44:39

Yeah, I am.

Piotr Sierzputowski  44:42

I can't imagine that. Jess will go and win one or two matches against those three but let's wait for a draw and then pick pick our choices because if she has to go all through all of them that and I don't think she'll stand a chance in all those three battles one after another. So it all depends on the draw right now. And most

Freddie Nielsen  45:04

likely she won't. But it's not like it's less than winning the Premier League here, right? We're talking about really good players who are highly ranked in the world and I'm not scared of beating these girls.

Daniel Kiernan  45:15

Are you saying that? But yeah, the names you use Coco? And I know Corcos your girl, you know, and you've you've gone for Coco. She's not she's not there right now, man. She's not like a

Freddie Nielsen  45:31

Different beast. She's

Daniel Kiernan  45:32

Not there. She's not there. Their levels not there. Right now. She's level is not there. It just it just isn't it? Caroline Garcia, I love Garcia. I think she's amazing. Like I, I've been on the court practice an extra couple of times. And these events the last few weeks. And she's like hitting serves like she's hitting the tones. Like she's embarrassing all the guys like with how accurate and you know, how she's hitting the ball? She's having mental breakdowns when she plays a match right now. You know, that's a, that's a very difficult thing, I think to turn around. So, so quick. And and I'm going through the list right now. And that's what I'm saying. I think there is now a genuine big three, you know, you go through the list and you go for it. I think it is quite hard to see right now. You know, we know in tennis, of course, ran a corner a few years ago, you know, we we know that these these stories can happen. So it's absolutely wrong to say it's not going to happen. You know, however, I think it is absolutely right that we're seeing. It seems unlikely. It seems like it's coming from from that group. I don't know what you think, Gaby?

Gaby Dabrowski  46:37

Tough to say. I mean, I agree with Freddie the the depth of women's tennis is pretty far down right now. I mean, if we want to talk about Jess, we can see how far she's come and the level that she has been able to reach. I mean, she was, I love Jess, she was totally floating around 150 to 250 for many, many years. And the fact that she's got to like top three is incredible, because most people would not have even continued to try to break through. So I don't know, I think you just can't underestimate what happens in women's tennis. Right now. Maybe you have three that are breaking away a little bit. But like Piotr said, with the conditions, it could totally depend on the day and just who handles it better.

Daniel Kiernan  47:24

But aren't we being a little hypocritical in terms of, you know, the last the last three, four or five years, the complaint of women's tennis is that anybody can win. You know, we've we've kind of complained that, you know, someone showed up and won and then disappeared. And we haven't created any rivalries. And it's been hard to really get our teeth into it. Where I guess for me is that we're celebrating that that fact, I think I think it's I think it's great that there's rivalries forming, you know, Iga for a while there was looking like no one could touch her 36 matches in a row, whatever. It was something along those lines. And now she's lost three times in a row Rybakina You know that she's had a one on one with Sabalenka. You know, the that's, I think we also need to embrace and it's not saying that there isn't the depth there. But I think we do need to embrace it, as well, that there's some rivalries that have started to fall. But this is now and Emily, you're first because almost anyone is a dark horse if that's what we're seeing. But where are the dark horses coming from? You know, you picked a fantastic one last time, who didn't play in the draw. But, but it was a good one. She's a good player. I've watched 50 in the world now. So that was that was a that was a that was a good call. Who should we be looking out for outside of outside of those big names over the next couple of weeks?

Emily Webley-Smith  48:52

Oh, am I allowed to say on I mean, she's not really a dark horse. I mean, I feel like she's very established is a dark horse. But in terms of on the clay, I think it's more limited than it would be on other surfaces. Yeah, I mean, calla Nina had a great room. But I can't see that I can't see somebody like her going reaching quarters or something like that of our French. Yeah, I'm sticking with Ons if that's the if you want one name, but I think it's almost derogatory to her to say she's a dark horse.

Freddie Nielsen  49:28

As you go from not playing to a top five, Dark Horse competition. What's happening here?

Emily Webley-Smith  49:34

If I've heard her again, I would but hey,

Daniel Kiernan  49:40

We have to stick with our dark horses for a while. You know, I've given up on it isn't over. Now. I said it too many times. She hasn't come good. I gave him I gave us seven chances. And that was you know, like no more Vossy

Emily Webley-Smith  49:54

given not given one. Maybe I should go with her again.

Daniel Kiernan  49:58

At this point, you Normally looking through the draw but the draw's not been made yet. So who are we looking for? I I always wait in bated breath for your Darkhorse

Emily Webley-Smith  50:11

The Egyptian girl but then I'm thereof. Yeah, sure. That one. I'm going outside Goodwin yard

Piotr Sierzputowski  50:24

I'm going always with my player because I believe in her so, of course, of course, Shelby? But if I would look wider maybe Mukova Maybe Vondrousova Czech players who are underrated right now they're playing well the Vondrousova played well in Rome. Mukova is lastly playing grades. So her practicing today I think she's healthy, so why not? Who knows?

Daniel Kiernan  50:49

Absolutely. And Gaby, were we were we looking? And we got about the Canadian girls. Any anything coming from Canada? Yeah,

Gaby Dabrowski  50:59

I love Leila and Bianca.

Daniel Kiernan  51:01

Bianca is spending more time learning how to hit her through the leg shot than she is hitting the crosscourt forehand right now it seems.

Gaby Dabrowski  51:08

So we all have we all have to go through that learning period of how to hit a tweener. I'm still on mine. But I mean, Bianca's game suits clay if you really think about the true Bianca and her original identity to tennis with her ability to mix up her shots to use the drop shot. Do us a big first serve. I feel like 2019 Bianca would have an amazing shot at winning Roland Garros but right now with with the body and not being able to string enough matches in a row. I think it's a little bit of a tough ask. Leila. Beautiful game beautiful human. Also tough right now I think with just the way her year has gone. But maybe a doubles slam for her and Taylor. I mean, hopefully, me but like if not me, then maybe them. Yeah, I don't know. It's it's tricky. I would love for Bianca or Leila to win. Hopefully they meet each other in the finals and all my dreams come true. Ready?

Freddie Nielsen  52:16

I think this is the most difficult one because there are so many girls that are kind of dark horses but then they have a slam or there used to be top 10 I found it difficult. I've settled on on Sorana Cirstea This time for no particular reason that I have a vibe. She's got a Swedish corner I believe and

Piotr Sierzputowski  52:37

But there is a plenty of reason. Lastly, she was playing great. So for I think like it's a good good, good pick

Freddie Nielsen  52:44

Yeah, obviously you shouldn't she would need to be playing well to be a dark horse. And I think she's been playing well. So thanks, God, I feel much better now. I did like you did and I finally left my Dark Horse, Katie away and pick somebody else. So it's a it's a dark day. But hey, you gotta gotta look forward. You've got it. You've got to admit that we were loyal. Yeah, no, we stayed loyal to our girls for for a good few episodes. You know, we didn't jump. So we we call him 45 times in a row. And then when you come through said I told you

Daniel Kiernan  53:25

So mine's quite a Light Horse probably and I'll probably get a bit of stick for it. But Ostapenko is

Freddie Nielsen  53:35

Slam champion as a dark horse.

Daniel Kiernan  53:38

It's it we've we've all agreed there's a top three, you know, and just ostapenko was a one that I I just think she's got enough bitch in her, that she can piss off some of those girls, if it gets into. If it gets into big matches. She's not afraid. She's not as she's not afraid to put it out there. So that's my dark horse. And now we have to find a

Freddie Nielsen  54:03

We need to define the rules of this competition because you pick a player who has actually won this tournament as a dark horse, that there has to be some sort of the call for that. gotta write it down. This is gonna be

Daniel Kiernan  54:20

We'll get a criteria for the next event.

Freddie Nielsen  54:23

Won to slam and two you have to be participant

Daniel Kiernan  54:34

You can't afford the semis of Rome the week before, which Ostapenko also did that's why it's quite it is quite a Light Horse possibly. And And what about our winner I don't believe apart from Fonzie who likes to sometimes chuck a random one in but we know Sabalenka Is his I think it's hard for us to go outside of of the big three. I'm sticking with it until it sticks. Piotr Who's your winner? I know Shelby is your is your number one. But you can't pick you can't pick Shelby. So who is your winner? Women's 2023 French open

Piotr Sierzputowski  55:12

enough. It's for me. It's like, whoever feel most most comfortable on my plane and Sega.

Daniel Kiernan  55:17

Gaby.

Gaby Dabrowski  55:19

Yeah, I'll agree. I'm also half polish. So I don't really have a choice. I have to say you go. Rosie.

Emily Webley-Smith  55:28

She's my girl.

Daniel Kiernan  55:29

Emily.

Emily Webley-Smith  55:31

Rybakina.

Daniel Kiernan  55:32

Freddie?

Freddie Nielsen  55:33

Say Rybakina for me.

Daniel Kiernan  55:35

Now, this is gonna sound like it's been a setup. But it's not we're to to to with you, Vossy. I'm with you this time as much as I would I would love Iga. And you know, I something doesn't quite seem right for me right now. I don't I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's the body? I don't know if it's you never know. There's just something I get a little feeling. I just think I think it feels right. Sabalenka. You know, she, obviously in Rome, Rome was get me out of there. I need to get my mind and body ready. She seems to have the confidence. So Sabalenka Is my pick. Two of us are going to be happy. Unless it's not in the big three.

Freddie Nielsen  56:22

And let me Can I add something if Jess wins against one of those three, we need the video of you falling out of your chair Vossy.

Emily Webley-Smith  56:30

Also, know what I'm happy to do it in the middle Daniels right now at the French Open.

Daniel Kiernan  56:38

We need it to go viral. So moving, moving on to the men's side, starting point 112 and three in his career record at Roland Garros. And for the first time in a while, I know he's missed one before but but for a long period, I think everyone's sitting there thinking, is he going to play the French Open each year? Is it going to be his last ever tournament? I was one I must admit, I thought we'd see one more French out of him. He's come out a couple of weeks ago and said he's not going to be at the French Open. He's going to fight to get himself ready for 2024. Is that possible? And I want to start with you Vossy a you know, from a from a physical side, you know, everything that Rafael Nadal has put through his body over the last 20 years. You know, he's obviously struggling in a bad way. You know, he's tried lots of different things over the last last few years to get him right. Is announced that if he does come back, he's got one more year, which I don't particularly like, I think that's going to be challenging for him. If he's the fanfare that's gonna follow him to every single event. Will we see him back on the competitive tennis court?

Emily Webley-Smith  57:57

In my opinion? No, you know, like you'd like you said, you know, if you wanted to play the French, do you want to be able to compete to win? And if you can, if he's going to do the farewell to go against what he just said down the French, I think to be Yeah, I mean, Federer would have loved to play one more Wimbledon. But you know, we haven't seenh it. We know he did play the Laver Cup. And that was him. So, I mean, I can't think coming back. I think he may try at the start of next year. But I think his body is body's been put through so much over the last, you know, 20 odd years. That? Yeah, I think he's, he will maybe attempt to start training later this year or whatever. But at the end, I think he will retire. I mean, look at these had a good good innings. And a great competitive, great, great athlete, great tennis player. Like any of these, any of these stories with that comes to an end, unfortunately. But you can't take take anything away from his accolades on what isn't to think physically. His body just keeps breaking down. It's been through too much.

Daniel Kiernan  59:03

And what does that do Freddie mentally for the rest of the tournament? And I think the one that suddenly I've maybe seen maybe someone like Medvedev, who in on here in that news, he's always talked about hating clay courts, you know, a little

Piotr Sierzputowski  59:19

Is he a Dark Horse or not? We'll, we'll

Daniel Kiernan  59:23

see in a few minutes. We'll see. We'll see what the criteria that's written down, you know, the quick rules that were putting in place, but you know, he was I mean, Sinner, he beat Sinner in the final in Miami, and Sinner in the interview, actually, are made fun of Medvedev for let's see how you not in a nasty way. I don't think Sinner's got that in him. But let's see what you're going to do on the clear quartz mitt. You know, maybe when he heard that news, when he was in Rome, that Nadal wasn't going to be in the French Open. Maybe that's opened up the possibilities for him. He could go and win win on a clay court. And what does that do to the rest of the field as well, from a mental standpoint?

Freddie Nielsen  1:00:08

Well, just the fact that he's in the in the drawer makes everybody else think there that he's going to win it by default. So if he's not in it, I think a lot of players are gonna smell blood and think this is our chance. Now it's narrowed here. And I think, yeah, Medvedev might be be a good shout for somebody who can take advantage of that. But I think there's a lot of guys in it to win it now. I think it's more open than a long time. Especially because Novak is not looking great. So it Yeah, you were talking about storylines for the women's tournaments. One of the storylines for Paris is obviously going to be the fact that Rafa is not there. And then hopefully, it's going to be Yeah, who wants who wants to sit on the on the on the throne at the end of the tournament, because I think a lot of guys can win.

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:57

And Gabby, can we have a tour without Rafael Nadal? We've already we're just getting over Federer aren't we?.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:01:06

Yeah, I know. But it's inevitable in sports, you know, like, it's, it's sad for tennis, for sure. But at the same time, I think there's such an amazing crop of other players coming up that are doing so well that are playing amazing tennis that are exciting personalities that have a story to share that I think tennis is going to be just fine.

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:32

And what about you, Emily? Where do you see where do you see the story? What what's nobody seeing yet? You know, let's get into mystic mystic, Emily, you know what we want to do? The next couple of weeks on the men's side.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:01:49

I just Firstly, I'm just sad that Andy can't play. I'm sad that we don't get to see that.

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:54

I think he could. I think he could have played. I mean, he's practicing right now on the grass. I think it was, it was very much a strategy. I don't I don't think it was in the plan to play. You know, I think I think the plan was was always to, to get on the grass early. And actually and actually, if I'm honest, I was shocked after he lost in Madrid that he didn't call the clay court season done then. You know, I think it was because I know that that was in his mind already. Yeah.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:02:26

I wondered when he made that decision. I was wondering what after you know to go and play Atari I was wondering then but I don't know if maybe something wasn't right. But I just I was just I really wanted to see Andy play at the French healthy but I think men's tennis it's really interesting right now like it's capturing my attention more than it has done. But I think from the last few weeks and what we've seen as you said with Djokovic I think it's hard to go against him but I'm not sure he's in the same place that he would have been normally coming into a slam when he hasn't got Rafa and Roger there looking at it like it's a given I think that conditions also play a massive part for the men especially Yeah, let's see I mean everything to play for

Daniel Kiernan  1:03:21

Piotr on the ground in Paris any any little insights you can give us anything that you're feeling on the ground that we're that we're going to see over the next couple of weeks

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:03:32

Not really I wasn't expecting any men's practices today but I just want to come back to him statement about how he's getting interested. Interesting in men's side I think it's interesting in women's side too, for many years last few years and men's are getting right now to the spot where it's getting interesting too. So we shouldn't be actually talking that it's something wrong the depth of field is bigger, but I think like actually conditions here really favour favour Alcaraz and this is this probably will be my pick but no story behind it just with my guts.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:14

Then the storyline will we will I'm sure we'll get back to a maybe in some predictions Freddie as Danish Davis Cup captain with with Holger someone who has has had a part in his life and it's known him from a very young age, you know, you've seen him develop. We've had fascinating conversations on Holger over the years, you know, before his ranking is what it is and the kid believes the kid I mean, we always talked about it like he's got belief almost like no other. You know, it's incredible. And I think I saw a stat the other day he's like, maybe correct me if I'm wrong, guys, but it's something like he's won seven of his first eight matches against top 10 players something where and I think Federer will was maybe four or five and the Nadal was four or five. It's apparently the greatest ever start to a career in terms of winning percentages over top 10 players. He goes on court against Djokovic, a story that I heard from on the inside of his team on this. He massively massively respects Djokovic to the point where, when he beat them in Paris last year, for the first 10 minutes after the match, all he talked about was how good Novak Djokovic was. Yet, he's able to compartmentalize that, because you know, so many players, when we play our idols, or we play these, let's be honest, that they're always not human to us, we put them on such a plateau all when when push comes to shove, a lot of players don't quite get over the line. Yet. He's won his last two matches against him. He seems to be winning a lot in practice, from what I'm hearing against him, you know, he is just not scared to put himself in those positions. You know, we're really starting to see, this kid could be gone on to great things I

Freddie Nielsen  1:06:03

Absolutely. You said he believes I always kind of said, he doesn't believe he knows. You don't have to convince him. He doesn't have to convince himself, he can do it. He knows he can do it. And he goes on to the stage and he feels like he belongs the bigger the stage, the bigger he'll play. The bigger the opponent, the better he'll play. And that's why he's, he's going to be successful with tennis, if he stays healthy. And you can see he gets better and better. Yeah, he is he I mean, I'm, like you said, I've seen him and I've seen him develop. And for the first few years when he was young, it was I was always on the fence because I couldn't empathize with what he was going through, because he was so far from my reality. So it's kind of like, is he mad? Or is he genius, I don't know. But I'm not gonna get in his way of, of doing what he thinks it's the right thing. And now I'm just completely 100% on the side of genius with with his tennis. He's a genius. And he keeps developing when he comes off the court, he's, he knows what he's decently reflective enough to say, Okay, I'm not good enough there, I need to be better and whatnot. But he has absolutely believed. I mean, he doesn't believe that. He's going to win slams, he knows, I mean, it's completely given for him that he will win slams. So that's, that goes a long way. And then he has a tendency to bag it. And I think we just need to how to need to figure out how to spread it out over a long period of time. Like he gets, he gets a little bit tired, because use a lot of energy to win his matches, but he will figure that out. And it's just a matter of time. And why not in Paris here. I think you can you can win, I'm not going to be showing I'm not going to do a Vossy and fall off my chair if he wins.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:47

Piotr, as a as a coach of, of a singles Grand Slam champion, you know, of a genius on the women's side who's you know, in Iga, and being around? It is? Is that a mindset that I love what you say Freddie about It's not about belief, it's about knowing, you know, it's such a such a strong thing, isn't it? And though the word identity always comes to my mind on that as well, because it's, it's something that's a little bit deeper. But can you teach someone to know, can you teach someone to, to believe or is that something as a coach that it's just like, that's, that's their bit, you know, you can help in all these other areas. What's What's your take on that?

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:08:33

I would say it's not our role to actually teach that it's parents role. And people who are the closest to the to the athlete, because Iga's father, as an Olympic athlete himself, he never even considered other option. And it wasn't like, being insane or being crazy. It was always normal, natural, she was losing. He was teaching her it's so natural, so normal, like as winning as she was winning, and she was too happy. He was keeping hand her down, but never let her go too much either way, but exactly as Rune is saying. Iga had always been when she was young, she was saying, I just want to win four grand slams, and finish my career. But she meant to win all of them. And it wasn't in her thinking the way like maybe I will win. She always knew. She believed in that she can win all of them. And I I can only apply to that because it's great. It's not something we teach players something they grew up with,

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:41

What the what, and this is to the table. So whoever wants to jump in on this, what are the challenges of that mindset? Because that it's so abnormal. You know, it's not it's extraordinary. It's not it's not an every day mindset that we that we come across. So what are the big challenges of one dealing with that as the team around the player, but two that the player has to deal with as well.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:10:10

Disappointment, I would say disappointment perspective. One thing is, is is talking your walk the walk talk the talk, right. So you can work to do. Yeah, yeah, you can you can sell the things but actually delivering. And you know, we've you go the other way where where you've got, you may have what, what Fred's saying now about Rune. And then then you've got the other side where the public or time say something about like, say, for example, Dimitrov, the public would think Dimitrov is going to, you know, be be the next, you know, the next Federer, he is going to win all the slams. And, you know, he hasn't. So I think, yeah, but I think the piece, I think the people around around the player would probably just try to keep them Level Level ahead of people on the ground and just say, there's a lot of work to do. That's got a got to go into your, your belief system.

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:07

Yeah. Joy, do you think you're able to end experience enjoyment, contentment, these these emotions, when you're, there's such a, such a knowledge of of going on to achieve such great things?

Emily Webley-Smith  1:11:26

Probably not, the intensity, the intensity must be a man behind it. So I think, I think it's probably more relief, if you actually go and achieve what you believe in. But you've got to, you know, the huge cliff to fall off if you don't,

Freddie Nielsen  1:11:45

Yeah, and to extend it, that's a lot of former athletes who were very good, who kept saying that, they never really they wished that take more time to enjoy the process, because as soon as they did something, they were already worrying about the next thing worrying about the next thing.

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:59

Absolutely. You hear it all the time. Yeah. And you see it all the time,

Freddie Nielsen  1:12:04

One point to extend to what Vossy says, about people talking, I think, in general, canceling the noise. Because from from the outside, if you have, we take Holger, for example, in Denmark, it's very, it's not very common for people to, to be so direct in what they want, and what they think of themselves. And so a lot of people have, you know, they're very much in a rush to tell you that you can't do it. So a lot of people will tell you that. You can't do it, and that you're crazy. And it's the same with athletes. So I think it's also important that the challengers compete to, to, to block out all the noise.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:12:43

Yeah, I think, Dan, just going back to what just going back to what you said, I think when when you said that, we would, we would consider that abnormal, that thought process of knowing that they can win a slam. That's our perception. So that society's perception, so that it actually might be entirely normal thought. And we deem it that, perhaps, even in a more British way, perhaps, and I don't want to say that, you know, being wrongly about against us, but I think there's definitely certain countries who would stand up more easily and say that that's, that's a more normal mentality. But I think that's changing definitely. But just even the way that we talk about it, and the way that be explained with Iga is that if you've been conditioned from a young age to be, to be also told by the people around you, that you're that you're the best and you're, you're brilliant and, and you can win a slam, then it just, that's just an everyday normality for you. So it's whatever is normal for you to believe. In the same way that that can work the other way. If people tell you you're not good enough, then you also just, you start to believe that until you prove people, you still prove yourself wrong, and you start to prove other people wrong. But it's whatever is normal for you. And it's not necessarily defined by what society believes or thinks is normal or abnormal.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:14

I'm not sold on that though, train of thought. Because

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:14:20

I have thought one which is which might be useful to like, everybody has some risk management and for some people aiming for line going to be risky, for other aiming for two meter side of the sideline, going deep into the court would still be risky. And everybody's a little bit different than this is something which is created on the way when we are getting to the top and we cannot control it. And I think we are putting too much right now into thinking like oh, they believed in that but they actually never been thinking about it that way if somebody asked them Oh, Will your winning the grand slam at the age of 16, 17? They are, of course gonna say yes, but they are not thinking about it every day and not putting that above their bed. It's just natural for them. It's like it's natural for them that they're going to achieve things they don't know, they're not sure it's going to be Grand Slam, but they know they will reach their potential. And I think this is different than actually being, like you said, pushed down every single time you do something better than something more than anybody else.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:31

But so my point on that the disagreement little bit, or the thing that I find hard? Well, the thing I find so hard about the thought some of the thought processes is how hard and how generational it is, to have an Iga and Alcaraz a route you know, this this we don't know yet. We don't know if any of those are generational compared to, you know, some, like you're Serena's your you know, vaccinate your refers, if it's as easy as telling your kid and I'm dumbing this down a little bit here. But if it's as easy as telling your kid that they are amazing, they can achieve anything they can, we're going to have millions of parents around the world who will do almost anything for their kids to achieve to high levels that are just going to be going around telling the kids that and, and my my experience, I actually see quite a lot of entitlement that comes out of that. I don't always see strong belief systems that come out of that.

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:16:34

Exactly That's, but look at the body language, even even simple things. If you are lying, and you're saying you're gonna be a great champion. Yeah, it's a lie. That's something we cannot control. But if you are saying you're gonna give everything what you have today in a practice, or you did or you will, that's something different. And this is what I'm talking about. Like, if you strongly believe in the basics, then it's different than when you claiming the lies, because those are lies, you're gonna win the Grand Slam, this is something which parents are gonna say those are lies, and it's not accurate, and it's probably not going to happen. But that's what I'm saying. For me. In those two cases, which we talked about, it never happened. Nobody ever said ever around, you're going to be a great champion. Nobody ever mentioned that. Everybody said, okay, there is work to do. And first if we do the work, then we can see where we're gonna get and that was simple as that. And even if there were like tough times everybody was like okay, it's injury we have half year off not because we started in the career we just doing using this half year to make you better player and it's simple as that but it's the toughest work in the world because I know that not everyone and I would even say not a lot of people in the world understand what processes so this is really difficult.

Freddie Nielsen  1:18:00

I just wanted to say but but I think you can say a little bit differently that the the geniuses and the extraordinary talents they need to have some sort of I guess that's what me saying they need to have their path cultivated and created this environment where they can thrive in however was I also agree with you then that you can't just take a blank canvas and create a champion but I certainly don't think that that the champions can get to where they are without having had the path cultivated by the parents.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:18:37

Yeah, things need to align along the way right to still happen belief is just one part of it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:44

Because I was about to hustle off this podcast and go with my kids up and just tell them in start the start the process because they're not they're not Holger Rune right now. They're not going to be attacked right now. So I was about I was about to start the process. It's a great great discussion guys. A one we could jump into more but I need some dark horses there none of this picking ex-Grand Slam champions.

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:19:08

Okay, what what if I would say Fritz Oh yeah, I could work is it that our course Fred is like ready

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:19

Dark Horse Police!

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:19:25

Okay, okay, so that's that's probably my peak only because I wouldn't see him winning on clay so that

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:32

I think that's a dark horse. I will I will fall off I will fly to London. Sit on Vossy's chair and fall off it for it. You know that? I can't see it. So I'm gonna give you that has a dark horse.

Freddie Nielsen  1:19:47

Maybe you can make it two for one if both things happen so you can see that

Emily Webley-Smith  1:19:53

you're smoking a pipe if you think it's gonna happen.

Freddie Nielsen  1:19:57

So there's a difference between believing It'll happen and can happen

Emily Webley-Smith  1:20:02

that's your belief factor that you've got a little bit of room in your

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:08

Gabi

Gaby Dabrowski  1:20:10

Rublev

Emily Webley-Smith  1:20:12

That's not a dark horse.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:20:14

Is that not a dark horse?

Emily Webley-Smith  1:20:16

Oh my gosh, no.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:20:17

Why?

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:19

Running Carlos? want exactly so this dark,

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:20:23

dark first

Gaby Dabrowski  1:20:26

Entered the tournament and he's not a Slam champion

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:31

it's it's, it's playing Freddie's rules very close.

Freddie Nielsen  1:20:35

But she I think she's already a lot better than a lot of us have done. Let's let it fly. Ready. Thank you. I think I actually have a proper Dark Horse. I have grown pretty warm on this guy because I really like his game. I'm gonna go for Francisco Cerundolo.

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:55

The good one. Yeah, it's a good one. And it's better than the one that I'd written down earlier tonight. Which is, which is Fabian Marason. Who had the amazing Rome? I mean, amazing. That's a true Darkhorse. He was 40 in the world and I watched him and I was like oh my god this kid is real. I've just looked he lost in quality so he's he's so I decide I've done that research before given my Dark Horse is the difference Emily said he thought he can't allow me to so he's crossed off the list but it doesn't not show as well I mean, this guy's gone and you know had the winds beaten Alcaraz done what he's done and then he's gone to qualities and and lost in the second round. And I think those stories are important in our in our world as well. You know for people to start giving respect these players that are ranked 200 in the world that are that are in these in these positions that are almost just written off as nobodies So yeah, that's not my Dark Horse. I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in before so I don't go last all the time. And still you you guys Musetti is I have two names one is is Musetti who I think at some point will will really come good on clay Freddie's shaking his head he has had he's had a pretty good pretty good clay season so far. Maybe you've counted over five sets I don't know, Lajovic is my is my second one. That that again? I see.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:22:38

You going with you can only have one.

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:40

Two pegs which depends which one does better. I mean, if I was to just pick one I call Musetti.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:22:49

Can I go Khachanov. Is he healthy? Yeah. Is he playing? Is he healthy?

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:56

Medium to light horse but yeah good Okay, we got a bit of American lover on the on the red claycourt

Emily Webley-Smith  1:23:07

Yeah, well, I think Wayne still coaching and I haven't seen him

Freddie Nielsen  1:23:12

but I'm on clay courts like a in USA like a unicorn on a skateboard or something

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:23

so now we're going for our winners. And I'm going to start with Gaby

Gaby Dabrowski  1:23:29

Novak.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:23:31

Oh, thanks for the kind for the banter. Going for the banker.

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:37

Is he the banker? Is he the favorite?

Emily Webley-Smith  1:23:40

In the Wangka bank

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:47

is he the favorite though? No, I'll make the highlight reel at the end of the year

Emily Webley-Smith  1:23:57

Gotta be the favorite for me.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:00

So Alcaraz we think favorite but yeah, but we've got we've got Sam here. You're gonna alcohols P OD.

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:24:07

Yeah, same pick.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:09

Kieron. Is was that your pick? That's the favorite.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:24:14

Not not that outright or girlfriend. I think you've got to think like now I've got the pedigree. I mean, I mean, maybe Rune hated the hate to go with threads that go against them. With opera. I'm not going to Fred. He can piss off

Freddie Nielsen  1:24:35

Stop making me laugh.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:24:37

I'm gonna go Sinner I want to go Sinner. I'm gonna go Sinner.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:41

That could be the dark horser. Yeah, but then

Gaby Dabrowski  1:24:45

if you're looking at someone who's gonna make quarters as a slam and it's I think that's not really a dark horse in Sinner because I think he can definitely do that

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:53

soon. As soon as more of a dark horse than Rune Yeah,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:24:57

Leave me alone.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:00

So Sinner, we're gone. Do you honestly think Sinner, honestly, come on? Surely,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:25:06

I just feel like it. I just feel like it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:09

Surely it doesn't come outside of the three. The three that can win it surely.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:25:15

I think the point about Djokovic is that it still is specified, right. So it's still that's still out there with the reason but why not Sinner? Yeah, let's go with it.

Freddie Nielsen  1:25:26

So then your obsession with making top threes in every discipline who are your three second winner then?

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:32

I think the three players that can win it. Ah, Novak Djokovic, Carlos Alcaraz, and my pic. Holger Rune. There's only there's only three I believe that can win it

Emily Webley-Smith  1:25:49

So you're saying Medvedev's a dark horse?

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:52

To win it? I think he is. He's not a dark horse to get the quarters. I don't think Medvedev is is going to win the French Open. I don't I don't think he's one of the three that can win. I think the winner will come from those three. And I just I love this kid. I've learned to love him already. Like he. There's was times when he was annoying me a bit maybe. And I wasn't sure if it was that genuine. But now I just know it's 100% genuine. He didn't give a shit. He didn't give a shit. He doesn't not give a shit about anything. And he just has it. I love it. I love the way he embraces it. I think he's brilliant for the game. I love that he's quite happy to walk on and be booed by the court and give them a few fists and a few. I just I just think he's so good for the game. But there's absolute substance behind it. And I think he wins the Grand Slam soon. So why not? Why not now? I think he's ready.

Freddie Nielsen  1:26:47

I also think that Medvedev would have benefited from the wet and rainy conditions in Italy.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:26:53

Fair enough. Actually, that's a good shot.

Daniel Kiernan  1:26:55

Yeah, it's tough to get the ball past them, isn't it but I think no, I think Medvedev would would really struggle to beat two have two of those guys or three of those guys back to back a bit like I think what Piotr said as well earlier about Pakula I think it's you know, I think will be tough for Medvedev to have a Rune quarterfinal. Alcaraz as semi final and the jurkovich final, I don't think he comes through three of those matches, you know, whereas I can I can see the other three coming through that. And Freddie, are you are you staying loyal? Are you jumping on my bandwagon? Are you are you going to give an opinion yourself?

Freddie Nielsen  1:27:33

I'm gonna give the opinion that Holger is gonna win.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:27:36

Oh, here we go.

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:37

There we go. So So Holger rude so we've got two Holger's. We've got two Alcaraz's only one Djokovic, and then want them then one Sinner. So so there we go. In terms of in terms of moving this on, I want to finish with a little quiz. You know, you guys are fun bunch. Let's see if he has any intelligence in that in those fun, fun phases of yours. The first question you have to type your answer into the chat box. How long was the longest ever match at Roland Garros in the Open Era? Okay, so we've Oh my goodness. We're going to need a little bit of maps here. So we got Piotr with eight hours, Gabby with five hours. 44 minutes, we got Kieron, and we've six hours, five minutes. And we got Freddie was six hours. 47 minutes. It was the big Dane takes the first point six hours 33 minutes. Klimov and Sons of all Oh my goodness. That was the next question. So I mean,

Freddie Nielsen  1:28:57

That box,

Daniel Kiernan  1:28:58

that is amazing knowledge. She's still only get one point. Okay, so he's given you that. Can you guys pick the year for mo again? Centuro. Branch open? Which year? Oh, you have to get it exactly right to get a point. There's not closest to this. You're all incorrect. You were bang in the middle. We had 2008 and we had an eight United it was 2004. Last question and this is more of a finger on the buzzer. Question. Okay, so if I see you put your hand up, you then get one guess. And the question is how many

Gaby Dabrowski  1:29:38

hand up? Yeah, like boom,

Freddie Nielsen  1:29:40

like the song Hands Up.

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:45

But you then have a three second window to give the answer. So you have to choose you've got to be quick. How many French nationals have won the French Open in the Open Era. Singles Ready? Who? How many men and how many women?

Freddie Nielsen  1:30:05

I was gonna go one each but I have a feeling it's two women zero men.

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:10

Okay, anybody else? Freddie's incorrect anybody else? Gaby. And up?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:30:16

I was gonna say three. Incorrect. Okay.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:30:21

Is it not? Is it not to one one male one female?

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:25

Correct point two Kiran Vorster. Next question. Who are they?

Emily Webley-Smith  1:30:30

Wow. Yannick Yannick Noah I'm married kids, right?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:30:35

No, I knew it would be.

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:39

Makes it too old. So the tie break question is what year? What year did Yannick Noah win the French Open? Kieron 1982? Incorrect. Freddie?

Freddie Nielsen  1:30:58

83

Daniel Kiernan  1:31:00

Correct. How a champ our champion. This is not the only thing that the Danes are going to win in the next two weeks. Freddie Nielsen takes the quiz. Holger Runa takes the men's event. And we're all looking forward to the French Open, and guys. It's been an absolute pleasure to have all of you with me a big, big thank you. That hour is never quite an hour, and I apologize for that. Get some rest, Gabby. Good luck, Piotr. Em Good luck the next couple of weeks. And I hope to see all of you guys soon. Thank you. Thank you. And a big thank you to our panelists for coming on. I told you it was a good one. Yeah, I told you that at the start. And it really was i i loved to be involved in that conversation. And I'm looking forward to listening back. And let's see who's right who's who's gonna get the who's gonna get the prediction spot on. So interesting that only one person when for Novak Djokovic. 22 time winning Novak Djokovic, you know, are we making that mistake? Are we sleeping on him? And just for you listening, I'd just like to say a little little apologies for for the quality of sound. I am here in Paris, as I said at the start, and my laptop's died. And my microphone is not switched on. So I've had to come from my mobile phone. So the quality might not quite be there. But hopefully you get the feeling of what is going on. I've got the sun in my face here in Paris. It's often rainy it's often cold. But the conditions certainly aren't that this week. We are on Round One day. Cameron Norrie has won in five sets today against Benoit Paire the crowd we're going crazy. There's lots of great matches for us to look forward to. And certainly I as a tennis coach, I'm very excited as my boys Harri Helliovarra and Lloyd Glasspool get started tomorrow as well in their first round here at Roland Garros. We have lots more amazing guests coming up. Hope you're well wherever you are. Enjoy the French Open. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables