Day 8 Wimbledon Recap w/ 1995 Wimbledon Boys' Doubles Champion, Martin Lee

Episode 295: Day 8 Wimbledon Recap w/ 1995 Wimbledon Boys' Doubles Champion, Martin Lee

 

DISCLAIMER: Please note we use a transcription service, so there may be some errors in the following transcript for the episode. If you can, refer to the audio for the exact quotations.

 

Dan Kiernan (00:01)

Hello and a big welcome to day eight of Control the Controllables live from Wimbledon. And today, once again, brought to you by Novellus, and we will be going through the major moments of the day brought to you by SotoTennis Academy, our TennisAthlete player of the day. And then we have our guest. Our guest was a champion here in 1995 as a junior.

 

He was a top hundred player in the world. He retired in 2006, got as high as 94 in the world. And Martin Lee is our guest. I'm looking forward to hearing that story. A winner of the junior event is kind of cool, right? So looking forward to hearing that. But to start with, I guess that the word, which I feel I've been saying now for quite a few hours on the back of the football that I stayed up to watch last night is…

 

Wow, wow, wow, wow. And I was saying that all day as I was watching the football in the middle of the night. And then I'm now saying it again because the youngster he's done at the Brit has made it to the quarterfinals. Arthur Fery has beaten Grigor Dimitrov 7-6 in the fifth set for the second round in a row down…

 

a break, was down two breaks of serve in the fourth set. The other day against Isubergs, today he was down two sets to one and a break in the fourth set and he's come back and once again he has made his way through this time on centre court. The other day it was on court 18. It was wild out there, it was incredible, the hill was going crazy. It just brought so much to...

 

to Wimbledon to have it. And I always think that at all the Grand Slams, if you have someone from that nation that's doing well, it just, works, right? It keeps the energy with the crowd and a big, big well done to Arthur Ferry and all of his team. And next he plays Flavio Caboli in the quarter finals in a couple of days time where I know people are saying it and he did beat him in the Australian Open.

 

but I think it's obviously a very different match now. know, Cobolli’s just made final in Roland Garros. It's be an interesting, interesting match in a couple of days' time, but that's not for Arthur to worry about right now. He needs to enjoy, he needs to recover, and I think everyone here on the grounds at Wimbledon just needs to just take a bit of a breath after the last 24 hours as a sports fan in this country. And if I move to the other major moments of the day,

 

Brought to you by SotoTennis Academy, Taylor Fritz. We've said it for the last few days the pick My pick to come through that bottom half of the draw. He's just kind of sneaking through You know, he started off with what seemed like a terrible draw to be playing Jack Draper in the first round But that's just kind of you know, once once Jack pulled out It's almost like as he even played yet Taylor and he's now in the in quarterfinals he won in straight sets over Alexander Bublik today and

 

he will next play, Taylor Fritz will next play. Who will Taylor Fritz play? I know who he plays. Let me have a little look at the draw. He plays, it is the winner I think of the Zverev match. Yeah, so he plays the winner of the Zverev match. We know that he's got that crazy record against Zverev, right, as well. So if Zverev does get past Leheka today, they've just gone on to centre court. The graveyard shift, right? They've got a…

 

They've got, they can only play tennis up until 11 o'clock. You know, we saw that happen with Cocoa Gauff last night. She was told there was one more game as she was serving at five four and she managed to serve it out and she celebrated tapping her watch. Well, uh, they have, I was out there cause my, my nephew's here. So managed to get them on the court before I ran over here and I looked at the clock and it was like two hours, 10 minutes basically they have to play this match tonight. So basically, unless that's a straight set, drubbing.

 

we're going to find that that match is going to be called off. On the women's side, who was going to be the tenth different champion in 10 years? You know, we're not getting repeat champions. We don't have the Roger Federer's winning eight years. We don't have Novak Djokovic. We don't have Pete Sampras. Right now, it's kind of changing hands every year, which is kind of cool, Naomi Osaka will play Karolina Muchova.

 

Jess Pegula against Coco Gauff, we know that they played yesterday. But then we have Linda Nosková who beat Madison Keys today, reaching the quarterfinals for the first time at the All England Club. just Nosková's gained sneaky good, man, just sneaky good results over the last couple of years. And she, believe, now plays against Marta Kostyuk, who, Marta Kostyuk, won again in straight sets.

 

And she's a great example, I think, Kostyuk of someone who, sorry, she doesn't, she plays Mertens. Noskov plays Mertens, Kostyuk also came through to beat qualifier Ashlyn Krueger and improved a 10 and all the season against players from the United States. A little fact for you. And Marta Kostyuk as well, we talked about this around Roland Garros, just that mindset shift that she's had. You know, talking not so much about…

 

winning, you know, and talking more about enjoying the experience and having a bit more gratitude to be out there playing. And she certainly seems to be playing incredibly well. She will play against Jasmine Paolini, who beat Alexandra Eala 6-3 in the third set. And I think for Paolini, think all of us, it's great to see her back to playing some of her top tennis. You know, she's had a difficult last few months. Maybe it's coinciding a little bit with not playing the doubles and her and Sara Errani pulled out.

 

She's played a little bit less. I think she was a bit burnt out. I've mentioned that on the podcast a little bit over the last few weeks. And there she now is back in the quarterfinals. I know she was, she was in the final here a couple of years ago. Obviously plays incredibly well on the grass courts. So, so there we have it. We will have a new champion. Nobody that's, don't think any of them that have won it. And it's a new champion of the last, the 10 out of 10 years we've had it. We've had a different champion on the, on the woman's side.

 

And Paolini actually, the news that I guess coming out of Wimbledon is Roger turned up, you know? Roger turned up and everyone's kind of talking about it in their press conferences but also on the court and Paolini said, stepping onto this court is something special. I was looking forward to it. It's an amazing atmosphere and it's something else to play tennis here. I feel so lucky to have this opportunity and feel lucky to get the win. And I want to thank Roger because he's my idol.

 

And I did think that about Arthur Fery as well. Obviously he mentioned, Arthur did mention him as well in his on court interview. But he's playing against Grigor Dimitrov. He basically plays like Roger Federer. And then Roger Federer is in the front row watching. And he's British and has got the whole country, nation on his shoulders. He's playing in his first fourth round at Wimbledon. He's playing his first time on Centre Court. He's playing all of these things for him…

 

to be able to handle that. I know that he has been our TennisAthlete player of the day earlier. We didn't give it for the win over Zizou Bergs, even though we probably should have, but I don't think we can have anybody else today that is our tennis athlete player of the day, and that is Arthur Fery. So a big, shout out to Arthur and his team on another brilliant, brilliant, brilliant day, an experience no one can ever take from him.

 

On the double side, we moving into the quarterfinal stages in the men's doubles. We had, you know, yesterday we know that Harri Heliövaara and Henry Patten won a big match. There's been a lot of close matches. Aravelo, Pavic beat Julian Roger and Theo Winnegar in three sets. Julian Cash, Lloyd Glasspool, last year's winners, they won 7-5 in the third today. We had a bit of an upset. Christian Harrison and Neil Skupski  went out to the alternates.

 

Kokkinakis and Kovacevic and then the big result is Krajicek and Mektic beat Vavassori and Bolelli. Krajicek and Mektic were actually 9-4 down in the third set tie break in the round before. And here they are finding themselves now in the quarterfinals where they will be playing now against Kokkinakis, Kovacevic, Heliövaara and Patten player, Androzzi and Guinard and then Arevalo, Pavic play.

 

Cash and Glasspool and Krawietz, Putz, Doumbia, Reboul. On the women's side, before Martin Lee is coming on, he'll be on in the next minute or so. A big, big shout out to Ingrid Neel and Juju Olmes, who put in a brilliant result today, brilliant performance, to beat the third seed, Danilina and Krunic. Perez and Schuurs get their walk over. Marta Kostyuk has decided too much to play doubles and singles.

 

We've talked about that a lot this week. It's not so easy for these players to combine the two, you know, which is why we end up with players that end up specializing in singles or specializing in doubles as well. Aoyama and Liang took out Su-Wei, and Wang. know, Shuko and Liang put in a great performance at French Open as well. So well done to all of these teams. And then the last one would be Jiang and Xu, 

 

beat Siegemund and Zvonareva. So that's hotting up as well. The doubles, our girls tomorrow, Gabriela Dabrowski and Luisa Stefani are on court 12 at 1pm tomorrow. So if you aren't Wimbledon, come and support. Get behind the team. But now a big welcome to Martin Lee. How are doing, Marty? How's things? Welcome to Control the Controllables.

 

Martin Lee (10:21)

I'm all good, Dan. How are you?

 

Dan Kiernan (10:23)

Very good. Thank you for joining us. it was the last time I saw you, we were...

 

not in the pub, but we were in the Long Bar on Saturday, the Bishop Abbey reunion, you know, where we all trained all those years ago. And it was nice to see a lot of old faces.

 

Martin Lee (10:41)

Yeah, it was great to see everyone. It was great to see the the old coaches that we used to work with. I think that's the first time we've s we've all been together for probably twenty years, I think.

 

Dan Kiernan (10:52)

And I think the thing for me, Marty, that was quite special about it is how we're pretty much all still involved in the sport, right? Like we've, it goes back a long time. We all went to school together. We got stories that we can't talk about on this podcast together. But, you know, just, think we all just kind of filter straight back into, you know, being good mates, kind of gone through so much together, but also we're still hopefully trying to pass something onto the next generation as well.

 

Martin Lee (11:22)

Yeah, I think that's the that's the the the big thing is that yeah, we we were so young when we met and it's sort of thirty years later and we're most of us are still involv involved in tennis a and all at quite a high level, which is fantastic for for British tennis and everyone involved really.

 

Dan Kiernan (11:42)

And Ian Barclay, and many of you that are listening, will know Ian Barclay. And the Barkers is an absolute legend of the sport. know, the coach, he was well known, obviously, to the coach of Pat Cash when he won Wimbledon in 1987. I think Pat Cash was the first player to climb up into the stands. And Barkers basically looked the same in 1987 as he looks now. You know, he had his gray hair, he had his gray mustache.

 

You know, we were then very fortunate to have him looking after us at Bishop Abbey, which was the national tennis centre at the time. And here he is, 88 years old. He's managed to get on a plane from Australia to come and see us. And that was pretty special to have Barker's there as well.

 

Martin Lee (12:24)

Yeah, it's amazing. He he tries to come over ev every year. We we always meet up and I I think the thing with Barker's is when when he sort of took over the the National Tennis School and started coaching us, we sort of we we sort of knew knew about him but didn't not like what he'd done in the game. We knew he'd coach Pat Cash and I think the thing with what he did with with Cashey was that he…

 

He coached him from the age of twelve or ten all the way up to Win Wimbledon, which doesn't doesn't happen now. It's it it's something

 

Dan Kiernan (12:57)

Yeah.

 

Martin Lee (12:58)

unique. So the and yeah, sort of we s we got to know a lot of stories about Barkers when we started sort of playing the Junior Grand Slams and every single person in in the locker rooms knew him. And it w it sort of Barkers was just famous for for being Barkers. He was such a

 

He's such such a nice guy and just just had so many good stories and just just made sort of training fun, didn't he?

 

Dan Kiernan (13:28)

Fun on the edge. There was incredible. And that's where I want to start, Marty, because we're at Wimbledon. It's during Wimbledon. Bringing people on to share their stories. I remember this well, that we were there, 1995, watching you guys every round, all of the Bisham lads together. And you and Trotters, James Trotman, who's coach of Jack Draper, playing. But after you won the semifinal, I don't know if you remember this.

 

but we had to go on some trip somewhere. So we actually missed the final. We'd been there, we were gutted. We were all like, what, we've got to go and play a tournament. Like we can't watch Marty and Trotters in the final of Wimbledon on court one. Like what the hell, like this is like ridiculous. But it was, I just remember that being like myself and I wasn't playing, but I just remember that week myself was like an unbelievable experience to kind of live that through what you guys were doing.

 

It is 31 years ago, which is like what the, what has happened. Go back to that 31 years ago, you're playing juniors, you find yourself in the junior Wimbledon final. I know that in that final, was court one and it was actually famously, I believe it was Boris Becker said, are you telling me there's something more important going on right now than the men's singles final because of the noise that was coming from court one, the old court one that was obviously right next to center court.

 

And it was, was Martin Lee, James Trotman winning the junior doubles at women's.

 

Martin Lee (15:03)

Yeah, it was it it's probably still one of my best memories. It's I remember we were in the changing rooms, and the the old changing rooms were sort of under court two. the old court two and we're in the changing rooms and Barkers we're just sort of warming up. We're probably going on in about ten minutes time, and Barkers walks in and we're sort of…

 

We're very, very nervous and we don't know what the crowd is or anything and we we said to Barker, So Have you been out on the court? And he goes, Yeah, I've been out there and he we said, how many people out there? And we've and he goes, About eight…

 

So that so that's what so it that sort of relaxed us 'cause we thought there's no one on this court. and then we sort of walked to the court and you can't see the courts the old court one, 'cause it was attached to centre, you sort of you walked sort of under centre and then you walk through this sort of gangway and then just walked up to the up to court one.

 

And then we walk walked in there and it was full to the rafters. It was and we turned round to to Barker's and we gave him a few swear words and but it was just as I said, it was the memory it's probably my best memory at Wimbledon. we we played we were nervous but we we started really well and and sort of just…

 

I always felt we were gonna win. We were s we were just we were playing better than the other guys and then we I think we got to we got to sort of match point and maybe lost that one and then just won it and it was just that feeling and yeah, and what you said about Becker. So Becker was playing Sampras. Sampras beat Becker and in Becker's speech he said, Yeah, I don't know what was going on on court one, but it was a lot more exciting than than this court.

 

Yeah, so it was it it was amazing and then it just it sort of rolled on from there. You we won it. We we got to go on centre court to collect our trophy from the roll box, which was fantastic because that we got that straight after  the men's final. then we were straight into the the locker room 'cause 'cause if you win one of the titles you've got to go to the Wimbledon Ball.

 

So we were trying on tuxedos. and then we got in they laid on a limo limousine for us. We're in the limousine and this was the time when there was no no social media and nothing. and then s the driver of the limo had Capital Radio on. And then the first thing the the main headline was me and Trotters winning the boys' doubles at Wimbledon ahead of Sampras beating Becker. So it was and then I think the paper the next every paper next next day we we were on the front.

 

Dan Kiernan (18:04)

It was a big deal, I remember.

 

Martin Lee (18:06)

on the I 'cause I think we were the first British pair in singles or doubles to to win a title at Wimbledon and the Juniors. So I think it was, it was something that was quite special. And we didn't really sort of know that at the time, but we yeah, it was something that was really,  I still remember it today, like it like it was yesterday.

 

Dan Kiernan (18:32)

And today we've had a British guy that's done something pretty special as well in Arthur Fery. You talk about noise, talk about Henman Hill, you talk about all of those things that we know about Wimbledon. And what's your take on that, as someone who's obviously still heavily involved in the game, a highly respected coach, got all of your experience for a lad who...

 

outside, he's now inside the top of the world to win those matches 7-6 in the fifth set when the British players over the years, you know we go back to them, the Chris Baillies you know matches against Goran Ivanisevic know so many kind of almost almost got through you know what have you got to say about Arthur Fery?

 

Martin Lee (19:22)

was amazing. I would I was sort of on on court. I s I sort of own a tennis academy now, so I'm still heavily involved in tennis and I was on till about seven thirty and then came in and watched the last sort of probably close to two sets and it it was amazing. It just he's he just sort of looked at home on the court as well. He just was just it was like another match to him. And he you could see he was nervous but he was relaxed at the same time and he was…

 

getting the crowd involved when when it needed to be. And he was just yeah, he just sort of played such a solid game, and so didn't make didn't make many many errors. But he just looked the longer the match went on, he he looked like he was getting stronger and Dimitrov was getting a little bit more tired. But yeah, no, it's fantastic to well sort of put to be a wild card and and make the second week.

 

I I think I made the second week once and that's not because I won four matches. I I won my first round main draw one year and then it rained for six days non stop. So I made the second Monday but I only won one match.

 

Dan Kiernan (20:31)

but we'll still take it. And I can't have you on, Marty, a big Millwall fan without mentioning football because it seems as this like the new era of British athletes or English athletes, know, they're also around, almost around tennis players we used to have, but we also used to have a team of football players that just didn't quite step up. And I said at the start of this show, for me, there's been two big wow wow wow moments that have happened for our country in this last 24 hours. Were you up till five o'clock in the morning like I was watching that last night?

 

Martin Lee (21:13)

I was I was up at f till five. I got my my kids wanted to watch it, so originally they said, can you wake me up at eleven thirty? Then we're I went to bed a sort of about eight, woke up for the last ten minutes of the Norway Brazil game and then it said it was gonna be delayed an hour, so we we got them up at twenty I think twenty past one and then we had about eight friends come over about quarter to two.

 

and we watched it and it was just, it was I think it's probably my most memorable England match and I I don't think I've ever missed an England match in the Euros or the World Cup and it was just it had everything and t the way they just dug in in the end was amazing 'cause I think we had probably ten defenders on the pitch and if…

 

Mexico go Mexico got one goal, there was no way we could win because we could never we weren't gonna score a goal. There was no striker on there. But it was just yeah, it was amazing.

 

Dan Kiernan (22:18)

Amazing. Are you ready for our quick fire round that we've been having with our guests over the last few days?

 

Martin Lee (22:25)

We can go for this, yeah.

 

Dan Kiernan (22:27)

Your best ever Wimbledon memory as a fan?

 

Martin Lee (22:33)

my best ever memory as a fan was when I was about seven years old and was a  long, long time ago, you probably remember it was short tennis. and I got to play short tennis at Wimbledon and I met the Queen.

 

Dan Kiernan (22:49)

Wow.

 

Martin Lee (22:50)

Yeah. So

 

Dan Kiernan (22:51)

I did that a couple of years after you and I met John Lloyd and Virginia Wade. How did you get the Queen?

 

Martin Lee (22:56)

did you, huh? I got the good, I got the good year, I think, then.

 

Dan Kiernan (23:03)

Nothing against you John Lloyd and Virginia Wade but do know what I mean? Queen—

 

Martin Lee (23:05)

Hm.

 

Dan Kiernan (23:06)

—would be... Finish this sentence, when I think of Wimbledon I think of...

 

Martin Lee (23:16)

Henman Hill.

 

Dan Kiernan (23:19)

Who would you most like to play on centre court, past or present?

 

Martin Lee (23:26)

Andre Agassi.

 

Dan Kiernan (23:29)

What song would you like to walk onto Centre Court to?

 

Martin Lee (23:33)

Wonder Wall.

 

Dan Kiernan (23:38)

If the whole tennis calendar in your era, so your time, was played on grass, would there have been a different top five in the world on the ATP and WTA?

 

Martin Lee (23:51)

No, 'cause I've sort of when I was playing the grass was really fast and it was the it was the Servolliers and and the and the ones that did well on grass always did well on grass, so I I would say it's the samprases and the the Philippuses.

 

Dan Kiernan (24:07)

And what about now?

 

Martin Lee (24:12)

now I think it's a bit different. Like today the ferry match was good because there was there was they were coming to the net quite a lot.

 

Which we don't really see. and the

 

Dan Kiernan (24:22)

Yep.

 

Martin Lee (24:23)

grass has got so much slower each year when I was playing. so I think it probably would be different now, maybe, 'cause I don't think I don't know, Pete Sampros's serve might not be as good now as it was, 'cause it was really fast then. but I—

 

Dan Kiernan (24:42)

Yep.

 

Martin Lee (24:42)

—don't difficult to answer that one.

 

Dan Kiernan (24:46)

Who's your favorite ever Wimbledon champion and why?

 

Martin Lee (24:52)

I think Goran. Just he was one of my idols because I was a lefty as well and I knew him quite well and we practised a lot and he was a good character and he just that year when he was a 'cause I think he was a wild card, wasn't he? when it when

 

Dan Kiernan (25:10)

He was,

 

Martin Lee (25:11)

it when he won and it it was just,we all wanted Hemman to win and then as as soon as Tim didn't get through that semis, I wanted Goran to win and that that was amazing for him 'cause he he had about I think he had two or three finals before that that he didn't get over—

 

Dan Kiernan (25:27)

Yep.

 

Martin Lee (25:28)

—the line.

 

Dan Kiernan (25:31)

What is your guilty pleasure in tennis?

 

Martin Lee (25:36)

Guilty pleasure in tennis. I think my

 

Dan Kiernan (25:40)

Or life.

 

Martin Lee (25:41)

guilty I think my guilty pleasure in tennis is when I'm not playing well and making the other player not play well at al,l as well. Bringing them down to my level.

 

Dan Kiernan (25:54)

You were good at that.

 

Martin Lee (25:55)

Yes. I enjoyed that.

 

Dan Kiernan (25:58)

I remember playing you in doubles in Nottingham one year. It was like maybe Nottingham Challenger or something like that. And I'd never known anyone hit such slow returns. It was like, but it was like, it would end up on my bloody feet every time. it was literally just bunting the ball at my feet. Looking back, I think why didn't people use to porch more, but maybe you then would have held it…

 

and gone down the line. And it was like, yeah, there was some ugly times playing against you, Marty. And another one of my big memories was watching you play Grosjean in the final at Roehampton on grass in the juniors, under—

 

Martin Lee (26:42)

Yeah.

 

Dan Kiernan (26:43)

—18s. And I think you were maybe playing for world number one junior that day. Is that the right memory I've got?

 

Martin Lee (26:49)

It would have been very close, yeah. It was yeah, 'cause I think well I played him in Mexico and we were I was number one and he was number two.

 

Dan Kiernan (27:02)

Yeah.

 

Martin Lee (27:02)

and then he beat me at Roehampton d he might have gone to number one when he beat me actually, probably after that. Yeah.

 

Dan Kiernan (27:08)

Right, okay. See, lived George's junior career. We all lived George's junior career as well, you know. And I think

 

Martin Lee (27:13)

Well but

 

Dan Kiernan (27:14)

that was nice, right? We all cared about each other as well, how everyone else did in our group, I think that's, Barker's got that right with us all as well.

 

Martin Lee (27:22)

I was just I was going through a few of my results before I came on here and when we won the doubles at Wimbledon, me and Trotters, the two weeks before, at Thames Ditton, me and Trotters beat you and Davy Shirt six one, six two in the doubles. Yeah. Yes.

 

Dan Kiernan (27:37)

Did you?We got in. That's a good win. That's a good win over me and Davy Shaw. We were a decent doubles team. So.

 

Martin Lee (27:42)

Yeah, Sam States and it is, yeah. Yeah.

 

Dan Kiernan (27:50)

we played a role. We played a role in setting you up. What's one thing that you'd change about Wimbledon?

 

Martin Lee (28:01)

I think I would quite like the known no net rule.

 

Dan Kiernan (28:07)

Okay.

 

Martin Lee (28:08)

'Cause that 'cause it w it's in in the juniors and then I think that'd be quite interesting for some some interesting points, that some interesting situations.

 

Dan Kiernan (28:20)

What's the best advice you would give a young tennis player that they should really remember through their tennis journey?

 

Martin Lee (28:28)

You've just got to be an unconditional competitor. You've got just never give up and just try your best and it doesn't matter. If you lose to someone six love, six love, you you keep trying, you keep and then next time you might win two or three games off them and then next time you might get a set. But if you just an unconditional competitor and you just try as hard as you can every single day ou'll improve and you'll you'll maximize what what you're you're meant to do in tennis.

 

Dan Kiernan (28:59)

Brilliant, brilliant answer. And last, last question, Marty, before you can jump off, if I answer a couple more of the questions that are coming in. Who's winning the World Cup? Is it coming home?

 

Martin Lee (29:13)

I think we've got a chance now. France looks very, very good at the start, but hopefully they've peaked a bit too early. but I think if Bellingham plays like he did yesterday, I think we're gonna be we'll be alright.

 

Dan Kiernan (29:30)

Marty Lee said it, it's coming home guys. Marty, thank you, you can jump off now. Thank you so much for coming on, and hopefully catch up with you really soon. We've got a question—

 

Martin Lee (29:40)

Cheers then. Bye.

 

Dan Kiernan (29:42)

—here coming in before I jump in guys, we've got our Dear Dan's, we've got a question here that I've just seen come through. With Elise Mertens getting knocked out at doubles, did you expect her singles win? How surprising was her win against Rybakina?

 

rate Merton's very highly. And I think she's, I think you have, you have certain players, this will be my take on it. You have certain players who have a very high range or level, you know, so on their good days, they're hot hot, like really right there. And then, but sometimes the range, if you imagine almost like a boat, you know, the range of their boat is…

 

is a bit too far. So, on their great day they're fantastic, but on their bad day they're really not so good. And then maybe on their medium day they do okay, they do okay. How I see Elise is she's got quite a small boat and her kind of base level is very good and her bottom level is very good. You know, maybe she doesn't quite have that top, top level that you're Rybakina and Sabalenka and these players have.

 

But I also, the second thing that I would say alongside that I think she's a brilliant competitor, like absolutely brilliant competitor. So I think when she plays these top players, if they're not absolutely on it on that day, then I think Mertens is a nightmare for them. I think they really are. and that's, know, was I surprised at winning against Rybakina? A little bit surprised maybe, but I know Rebecca seems to have gone off the boil a bit the last few weeks.

 

You know, it doesn't seem like there, I said this the other night, I don't know, I don't have any inside knowledge on this, but there's something not right. And we know historically the last two or three years when Rabakhan has kind of upset in her personal life, that it does tend to go onto the court as well. And so the worst person you want to play when you're not feeling confident that you've maybe got a few things going on.

 

is you don't want to play against Lisa Mertens, you know, because she will just make your life hell. And so because it's taken all of that into account, I wouldn't say it's a massive surprise. Her chances against Nosková, I actually have Mertens as favorite for that match. I know Nosková is playing very well. But again, for that same reason, I think Nosková has to play at her very, very high end, you know, and I think Mertens will just bring a really strong level.

 

Her base level and I think if they both play almost their base level, think Mertens will win with pure determination and fight if Noscaf her place her highest level she'll maybe hit hit Mertens off the court But Lisa Mertens for me is maybe favorite in that match And and I think Yeah, I think it's a real opportunity for them both so so so let's let's see but…

 

Yeah, big, big, big, big fan of what she brings to the, to the court and very, very difficult player to beat. A couple of little dear damn questions before we go today, guys. And thank you for Betty. Thank you for those questions. And thank you as ever for the support of the podcast. One from here from Claire, Claire Fielding. What do you think other tournaments could learn from Wimbledon? Top difficult, difficult question. think, look,

 

What I love, a bit like my analogy on this is you go to everyone's wedding and weddings are different in their own unique way. Like my brother got married and they did their wedding party at a pub in London and it just worked. It worked for him, worked for the family, worked how it was. I've been to weddings that are in beautiful castles. I've been to weddings that are in, you know, they've got marquees. I've been to weddings which are much smaller and you you've got a more intimate dinner.

 

And I think it can work in lots of different ways. There's lots of, as long as it's authentic. And I think my thing to bring that back to tennis, I've made any sense on that, is Wimbledon is just so unique and authentic to Wimbledon. Just everything about it, how it's manicured, you you look around the grounds and like the detail of everything.

 

you know, the ivy that's coming off the center court, the flowers, the position of the finishing touches to everything that they do. You know, obviously they're carrying a lot of tradition and history. Whereas if you try and take some of that to select the US Open, it maybe doesn't work because the US Open is New York and authentic to New York is the hustle, the bustle, the...

 

the people everywhere, the loudness, the lights, the glitz, the glamour, that's what makes New York special. I think it's difficult sometimes to compare tournaments. Obviously from an operational standpoint, there's lots of things that I would have personally that Wimbledon could do better, as I would lots of tournaments, but also that they do very well. But from just an event of...

 

of what Wimbledon is about and what most of these tournaments are about. I almost wouldn't like to compare because I think it's about being true and authentic to yourself, to the culture, to the nation that it's in. And that's something that obviously Wimbledon does incredibly well, but sort of lots of tournaments do that incredibly well as well.

 

But thanks for asking that Claire and getting in touch. We have one last question I'm going to go through this evening before we get out of here. I've got a match to plan for tomorrow. We need to make sure everything's in place for that at 1pm tomorrow. But one from Sam Evans here. Hi Dan, what aspect of doubles has evolved the most since your playing days?

 

I say this one's relatively simple actually is I think the serve and territory management, know, the understanding of the territory geometry of the court and linking that into set plays is, I would say everyone's well informed on that now. And because the serves have naturally improved over the years as well, the success of the serve or the…

 

quality of the serve hitting the spot and then understanding the position related to that means that returning in this is men's doubles more than anything but means that return becomes very challenging you know because we the spaces are closed down and and and I think whereas what we used to see a little bit more in men's doubles is that the return got past the server's partner more…

 

which probably makes for a little bit more. We had Jonny O’Mara on the other day and I've seen he's been tweeting this a little bit as well. And I think there's context to what Jonny's saying that Men's Doubles is a bit boring. If Calvin Betton hears me say that, he's going to be saying, no, it's not. And I'm not saying that it is. However, I do get that people like to see maybe a little bit more creativity.

 

We used to see maybe like John Mackerel play first volley and then there was like a bit more angles and a bit more touch and a bit more, you know, it's maybe become a little bit more sterile. And I think that's related to how good the serves are on the positioning, which and how sharp they now are as service partner. You know, whereas I talk about this a lot, I think in women's doubles, the starting point of a point is that the return is of a higher quality.

 

So they avoid the partner of the server more, or they hit a higher quality ball at the service partner, which makes it harder to finish the point. So now we're starting from that position of ball three, where you've maybe got to be a bit more creative, a little bit more tactical. You need to have maybe a few more tools in your box, which is why I do relate women's doubles a bit more to junior doubles and also club.

 

know, club players looking to learn a lot about doubles. I would recommend watching women's doubles over men's doubles because in general, men's doubles is dominated by the serve spots being hit and then the territory and geometry of the court being covered. And this, is why we're seeing, we're seeing a lot of these men's doubles matches here on Wimbledon. I know it's a bit slower than it used to be, but it's still a somewhat fast surface.

 

is sorry, there's a bit of noise behind me. But is, is, you know, it comes down to you have one or two opportunities. I was watching class, class pool and cash today and they got to six, five break point and you kind of watching in the third set, you think, well, this is your chance. Cause if you don't take this chance, there's good, could be ACE, ACE or ACE finish. And now you're in a tie break and fair play Lloyd stepped up in a clutch way. He made a return a bit chunky, but then hit a great backhand and that's it.

 

that's your one chance, but it's very easy to be after that match if you've maybe you've missed that backhand going, my God, we should, we had that chance, but it was just one. You know, you don't get as many, the margins are a lot smaller. And I do think that that has evolved and it's probably going to continue to evolve. You know, the information's out there now, the statistics are out there, the data's out there. Now on the ATP, you now have this opportunity.

 

Everyone gets the insights now as well. That's just come out in the last few weeks on the doubles side. They've had it for the singles guys for a while. So, you've got to watch this space a little bit on that because I think people are getting better at it, you know, which is why in general as well, players that are playing a lot of doubles, they might not be as good at tennis player or singles player as the top singles players, but in general, they'll beat them.

 

because they do the doubles thing so well and it's become a real craft. Obviously sometimes tennis, just pure tennis can beat doubles, but in general they've become so good at that skill of doubles that they often come out on top. Sorry, going on a bit too long Sam, but hopefully that answers the question somewhat and we will be back tomorrow is day nine.

 

Wow, we're going by, we're going by fast. Lots more great tennis to come tomorrow and I will be back again tomorrow evening. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables.