Alfie Hewett - Changing the game of Wheelchair Tennis

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 202 of Control the Controllables. And how do we better the three time Grand Slam champion Andy Murray? Who was our episode 200. Well, we've gone and got a 25 time Grand Slam winner in Alfie Hewett.

Alfie Hewett  00:32

I know, there'll be people that watch me play on court, one of them would ever think this guy is amazing what he does, he plays wheelchair tennis, there's variation. But what people don't know was that I was also that, that same child that I think many children, you know, they face adversity, they face bullying, a change of lifestyle, struggling with mental health, all of those key topics that you know, everything that they go through, I've gone through and for me, sport was what really dug me out of that hole.

Daniel Kiernan  01:04

And if you want a story that is full of resilience, perseverance, it's full of emotion and purpose and reason for competing on the court. Then look no further than Alfie Hewett's story. It's an incredible story that started with absolute trauma at the age of six as he was told, he's unable to play able bodied sport again. He was then bullied. So now what how's he going to come back from this? And here we are all of those years later. 25 time Grand Slam winner, someone who has changed the landscape of wheelchair tennis forever. And he's continuing to be on a mission to further that and the opportunity. This story is truly inspirational. Alfie is truly inspirational. I feel very lucky to have had that conversation. And I'm sure you are going to love listening to it. Let me pass you over to Alfie Hewett.  So Alfie, you are too big welcome to Control the Controllables. How you doing?

Alfie Hewett  02:13

Very good. Thanks. Yes, it's an honor to be on this podcast. Thanks for having me on.

Daniel Kiernan  02:18

It's an honor to have you Alfie. And there's, there's so many things for us to get into, obviously, your your career. And, and I like to start on the podcast Alfie by looking at people's tennis journey and how they got into tennis. But I think with yourself, I'd actually like to start with your life actually. Because there was obviously a period in your life before tennis became a thing. And certainly before tennis became a thing in a wheelchair. And if I go back to the, to the very, very start, I believe you started your life alongside your sister Ellie, very, very closely. I don't know who came first your Ellie.

Alfie Hewett  03:03

She was a minute earlier than me. So she gets all the bragging rights.

Daniel Kiernan  03:08

So she she jumped ahead. But I and I know very, very early stages of your life as well. You had an open heart surgery at six months. So if we go back all of that time, and I guess my first question then is linked. Was that period part of what played a role with you not being able to play able bodied sports? Or was that something that came after?

Alfie Hewett  03:33

So for me when I was well, pretty much born I had a condition called tetralogy of violets which there's three or four different things associated with that condition but the main one being that I had holes in my heart and that was picked up around seven weeks before I was meant to be born. So I was a I was a very premature baby. And I think my mum went into just like a routine scan a bit of a checkup and they noticed there was something wrong with with myself and decided pretty much there and then that that needed to get me and my twin out ofthe cupboard and see and see really what was going on. And yeah, that's that's how my my heart condition really started just one of those things, nothing, nothing was nothing caused. It wasn't related to anything. But I was about three pounds nine I want to say when I was born, so it was a very small, small baby, my sister and was quite upset so I think we know who took all the nutrients

Daniel Kiernan  04:43

Like twins like Twins the movie.

Alfie Hewett  04:46

Yeah. And then I always I always hold that against. But that yeah, that like I said that's that's obviously how it all came about and I was pretty much rushed straight to Great Ormond Street And as soon as I was soon I was delivered. And I was too young to be operated on at that at that stage. So they had to manage their condition and keep me going for seven or eight months. And then once I was big enough and had grown a little bit they they paid off and I had a heart. Yeah, open heart surgery, and they put patches on the holes of the heart and had to thicken out some of the the arteries because they were Yeah, they were too, too constricted and some other little things as well. There's too complex again to go into now, see now. But that wasn't that wasn't initially the reason for for getting into wheelchair tennis. It was, it was about six, seven years later. So I managed to still play sport and my feet up until that point, but I guess I never really like exerted myself to maximum, because there was always that, I guess, worry with the heart condition. Like I didn't want to push it. But it's touch wood it's still, it's still going strong today, because when actually had the operation. They said the patches that that was put on my my holes, obviously in my heart were only meant to last between 10 and 15 years. And, you know, with playing sport and now pushing myself on the tennis court in the gym, they were concerned that maybe I need to have another open heart surgery, which going through many tests and seeing the consultants and the doctors over the last sort of five to 10 years, it's been apparent. That's not the case anymore. And maybe there was a little bit of misunderstanding when I had the initial surgery, and that they actually use all of my own tissue to to help the patches and therefore it's just grown naturally. Which is good, nice to see doing doing what I'm doing because that would be a pretty big, obviously operation and would probably take some some serious timeout for it. So so that was good news. But then I was going back to actually why I'm playing wheelchair tennis. It all came about when I was around 6 to 6 and a half years old and I was a fit lad loved playing football, love being competitive love being athletic. Football was my sort of my dream always dreamed of being their professional goalkeeper. Now looking at the height of me, I don't think I would have gotten very far being five foot five. But yeah, it was yeah, it was always something that I wanted to do played for a local team, sort of having trials for Norwich City Academy at the time as well. So they're really, really, really strong ambitions, they're just developed some some pain initially in mind, sort of like left knee, left knee left eye and didn't think anything to do with it too much of it at the time got worse and worse. I remember getting to a stage where I could barely put any, any weight through my foot, my left leg and went to the doctors initially said they are just growing pains, you know, he's playing football, he's a growing lad It's one of these normal, normal things that happened. They got to a stage where I'd be on the football pitch or I'd be walking around didn't really matter when my leg would just give give away and I'd be collapsing and be an absolute agony and just literally the whole time. Yeah, it was probably good. Unless, seven eight months if not a bit longer. Persevere and and just trying to get on with it. And obviously we didn't know that it was the extent of what it was eventually. And I think it took because it was a bit of a blast. I mean, these are all stories I get told you back then. Yeah, I guess because it was almost like a bit of a traumatic time for me, I don't really remember

Daniel Kiernan  08:46

That's what I was gonna say it almost like the feels that you're was talking about another person?

Alfie Hewett  08:51

Yeah, yeah, it is like that. That side of it. All. I really don't remember is sometimes when I, I guess,  And when people remind me of that, and I was like, okay, yeah, remember? And suddenly, you start reminiscing what it was like, but it's, I guess it's not an experience that I wish anyone to go through. But you know, thankfully for me, I have a really good support network around me and have Yeah, I guess now with everything that's gone on, since it's one of those things look back on. I'm so glad it happened in some way because I would never have had the career that they had. But I guess going back it was yeah, it was I remember playing football and just randomly collapsing. Magnetic moms like that. We go straight to the hospital here went to went to A and E had a few X rays. And the results came back and they said it was it was a condition called Pathways disease where basically the head of the femur, the hip law, started surface of it started to disintegrate. It obviously had been happening for nine, nine months or so and the one has certainly not recommended is that you put weight through it. So obviously started so long ago. And we continue on while I was doing just made it worse and worse and the hip of the board decided to dissolve and hence the the agony that was in really, and I pretty much was put in traction straightaway. And they said, Yeah, from now on is going to be wheelchair bound for at least a few years. And, you know, that transition was a very difficult one for a seven year old to take and understand. And it wasn't one that I wanted to accept at the time. So I remember after I came out playing at being in the hospital, and I saw my mates playing football or PE lessons, wherever it may be, and I was, I wasn't. I'm not having so I'm gonna do it. And I'd get up and I try and walk or run. And you just hear this crank going on. Back in hospital, it was now happened, like two or three times. So yeah, that's, that's sort of how the condition came about. And, you know, been playing wheelchair tennis, ever since that, and my life completely changed, because of that thing. And once again, it was just one of those conditions. It wasn't because of an accident, or, or anything, it was just, you know, one of those things that life likes to throw out here. And yeah, I guess it probably takes me to the mentality and who I am today for sure.

Daniel Kiernan  11:36

Yeah. And that that even comes out. I think, as you're talking there, Alfie, the young seven year old, who's determined to get out the chair and try and run and walk is, is that 20 plus year old that I see playing or Wimbledon Who's fist pumping, and showing that determination? You know, I think that's, that's one of your big character traits that comes through very loud and clear you know. And I guess, I talk a lot about this to guests, it's the consequence of things we often don't know at the time, you know, then when you when, when these things evolve, we start we start to understand it a little bit more, but if I just keep you in that time period, just for now, you as a person, what effect did that have on you because, you know, all of a sudden, you know, you lose your lower limbs, you're unable to run around play, that for a child, you must have been a monumental thing to one have to deal with mentally but two in terms of how you then are able to get on with friends and carry on in normal life. What What effect did that have on you from a mentality standpoint, that time?

Alfie Hewett  12:58

Yeah, it's, it is a big question. And obviously, it has such a physical impact on your life also become a lot more limited in what I'm able to do on my feet, which is basically nothing at the time. So that is a very hard thing to to understand. And for a lot of what I went through in the early stages was was just the lack of acceptance. Is this happening to me and I just remember the question always being why me like what Why did this have have to happen to me because it really knocked my confidence it really knocked, I think who I was as a as a person and then the mental side of going through a transition at the your seven whether  you're a teenager or even whether you're an adult is you get used to a certain way of life and for me, then it was been a while I had to adapt and little things you start to appreciate more in life. Like taking a shower, sounds ridiculous, but I needed to have a bathroom that was then accessible for me to use and the house that we were living in at the time wasn't the case. So then I had to move from upstairs to downstairs because I have no way of getting upstairs. But then I didn't like the I was away from my my twin my brother my mom were all upstairs it felt like it was you know, it was separated from from that and now it was just a lot of change. You know, you have to adapt everything that we had to build around just to go into the house because there was such a big step. Then going from sort of like the pavement into the car and the button we call it a banana board just to be able to transfer into the car. You know, and then not being able to do sport and do do the things that obviously I really enjoyed and loved at the time was really difficult and you know, I give credit to a lot of people who who are around me at the time because I still went to nearly every single football match that I was playing for and they made me feel just as included as I was before being in the chair and felt part of the team and even an even though I wasn't the one out there playing whenever I would get a trophy, the team would win a trophy that always be a trophy for me at the end. And I was like a mascot So yeah, that was a big part. But you know that with that I did lose sort of my my friendship group initially. At school, I was weird because they were young, the children, I don't really understood what it was that was that was going through and found it hard to be able to include me.

Daniel Kiernan  15:43

Were you bullied?

Alfie Hewett  15:44

There were other moments? Yeah, yeah, like all the way through to the high school. There was certainly been cases of bullying and I think it's more being the, the, say the odd one out, but I was the only one in a chair at the time. So even for the school, which was quite a small school, it was it was difficult for, for them to, to adjust as well. And they had to learn and my my obviously went in and spoke with him quite a bit. So there was a lot of communication. But you know, for the for the kids, they were spoken to about what I was going through, but some of the kids don't understand and you know, find it difficult to to adapt as well. But it was more so being not included. I remember, in my early years of being in PE everyone would be playing basketball or netball or football or something. And I was told I'd have to go to the computer room and just research and different sport, but you wouldn't see nowadays. But in the moment, it was like hang on, this is a physical education lesson. And I'm being told I've got I think it was like poor form or something like that I've got, I've got to deliver like an a4 piece of paper work or rules understanding of tactics on your sport was that segregation, I guess, away from the group, which probably heightens the I don't like to say this but the difference because it was a big thing. That was the big thing for me at the time. It was like I don't like being different. I was different from from everyone else, you know, no one else was in the chair. No one else was having to sit on a different table in school because I couldn't sit on the table because it was too high and things like that. And everything had to be adapted. But and I didn't like that I was been the the different one, I guess in school. And, and so yeah, yeah, I guess that was a big reason as to why I just hated being in the wheelchair and hated what was happening to me because I just wanted to feel like I said, I don't like using the expression now that feel normal feel included. And I think when I look at society now and I hear and see people who are who have a disability in sport it's so much better. It's it's way more educated and schools are way more prepared for for that sort of adjustment if needed. So, yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  18:22

I think it's really, it's an inspirational story, Alfie, but I think it's, it needs to be heard, you know, like people out there need need to hear this story and hear stories like yours, because it's, there's somebody out there listening to this. That is in that situation right now.

Alfie Hewett  18:45

That's why I feel passionate about inspiring. There's a lot of conversations happening behind the scenes. And unfortunately, I cannot share just right now. But hopefully in some time I will be able to but it means a lot because I was that kid and I know there'll be people that watch me play on Court One at Wimbledon and think wow, this, this guy's amazing what he does, he plays wheelchair tennis and he's an inspiration. But what people don't learn was that I was also that, that same child that I think many children, you know, they face adversity, they face bullying, a change of lifestyle, struggling with mental health, all of those key topics that you know, everything that they go through, I've gone through and for me, sport was what really dug me out of that hole. We haven't we haven't touched on that yet, but it was That's why I got into wheelchair tennis wasn't because my mom was like, Alright, we're gonna create the next wheelchair tennis, Grand Slam player just help us help us help his mental health. It's getting back to the game. Let's make new friends and play with the family in terms of being able to play together, things like that. And I know there's so many youngsters that are in that position, and even teenagers that we felt very similar things to what I was going through and openly talking about I therapists counseling when I was when I was younger, I had a lot of anger problems and people don't ask why I'm very emotional player on the court as well, you see that very emotive out there. And but yeah, back then it was it was a difficult, difficult period. And so I went through all the same feelings and emotion there's a lot of youngsters with disabilities are struggling with. So I just hope that I can relay that message whenever I get the opportunity to use my platform to, to share my story, and to know that what I'm doing right now didn't just happen overnight, there was a long, long process. And you know, I can I can relate.

Daniel Kiernan  20:53

Yeah, and it all it almost feels in that moment. Because there's various reasons why youngsters get into those dark holes, you know, and it, it can be a disability, it could be race, it could be sexuality, it could be bullying, it could be you know, it could be a number of various things that put us in there and more and more of the way social media is, it's a brutal world out there right now. And the question that I now want to move to and you've touched on it althea's, how did you get out because, you know, that's the bit that it feels like, I'm never gonna get out of this, I'm never gonna be able to accept it. And you've talked there, you started, you mentioned your mum. Now, the, my understanding of your of your journey, at that stage, I know, your mum was a massive, massive influence and, and also your grandfather was a big, big influence as well, you know, to be taking you to these new sports to be trying them out to then obviously, everything that then goes with it. And I know, there was some big sacrifices that were made. But the starting point, if you go back to when you first started playing tennis, playing tennis is hard anyway. You know, but sticking you in a chair, it's it's an extremely difficult sport. We did you take it up straight away was were you a natural? Was it a challenge? What do you remember about that period?

Alfie Hewett  22:23

Well, I can I can definitely say that I wasn't a natural I didn't, it didn't come very easy to me. But I did lots of different sports. And that was, you know, go back to your initial statement or and how do they get out of it? Well, I found the purpose again, my purpose again was for sport and you my mom, my grandparents, my auntie. And it was there was a lot of people at the time who who knew how instrumental sport was in my life because it was a big, played a big role before I was in a chair. And, and so they scouted what was about and there was various different, like, Come and try sessions, whether it was in Norwich or Norfolk where it was based, or there was like a disability festival that was run at Stoke Mandeville, which was an amazing escape really, because I'd go there for like a long weekend and you'd sign your name up to wheelchair tennis, wheelchair basketball, athletics, table tennis, you name it, there was pretty much every sport there that you could, that you could test out and have a go at and I just looked up, I've seen some pictures recently of me participating in those events and all you can see is me caring about getting that basket in the hoop or getting that tennis ball over the net. You know, it wasn't it wasn't taking in my surroundings, I felt included. I felt like I was part of something and I felt that I could be myself and make friends again. I made a lot of friends during that those times and ones I'm still very close to now. Well and that's really the the impact that those opportunities can can have. wasn't wasn't like right we're gonna get our feet in a chair making play tennis so that he said he plays at Wimbledon one day it was just was he gonna enjoy what's he going to love? What's he going to find a passion and you know, I tried all these different sports and wheelchair tennis was one of them. It wasn't the only one that it was one of them. You know, I could remember going down to East Anglia tennis and squash, squash club, home every Wednesday evening. My brother would turn out my sister would turn out there would be other people there with disabilities with their families that would that would show up and I was in like a big Red Cross chair at the time it was It wasn't like it was sports specific and I think racket from I don't know where it was Sports Direct or something at the time and I couldn't hit a ball, you know, there was there was nothing there was no talent there, there was no there was nothing going on it was just just being out there playing sport and it was a challenge as well like something that I see even now especially now is I love I love a challenge and I love a problem to solve and not in that, especially I wanted to was something that really frustrated me but also gave me a lot of joy when it when it happened. And a lot of my early memories was on that court playing killer catch and just learning basic techniques of of the sport. And you know, wheelchair tennis is very difficult to get a grip with quite literally as well. And you know, play in playing tennis and you feel looks challenging, but driving a wheelchair and gripping the tennis racket you hand and try and get a grip with the chair and get to the ball, move to the ball, hit the ball, recover and get out of there, incredible, tough skill set, and one that obviously has taken a lot of years. And for me, early stages, it was just to get used to the wheelchair, I did a lot of wheelchair movement. I joined a wheelchair basketball club as well, which is something I absolutely loved. That was a massive, massive part of my journey, even in tennis was was that it was two different sports, your team sport on an individual sport. And that helps me with gain the sort of movement and familiarity with the chair and how it works and how it was I've seen many people get in their chair and go backwards spin around in circles, you know, carries quite quite a lively at times. And so again, getting the hang of that. And then obviously the tennis side is something that you just have to learn, like anyone does, you know, the forehand backhand, as are all of them to try and just get used to the two and combine it together. It's it takes a lot of time and patience. And I will be honest, I think I think it wasn't for my family just really pushing me at times, because I think tennis is one of those sports where if you don't get it straightaway can become very easily frustrating. It was so weird, like basketball I could just do lengths of the of the court and feel like I was doing something but then when you're sat there trying to run a forehand. Now, this isn't a sport for me like what am I doing? I just want to go and feel like I'm being active

Daniel Kiernan  27:29

It's harder to play the game, isn't it? I think that's the challenge for not just wheelchair tennis is the challenge for able bodied tennis as well. The the game is complex, the skill, the skill level is complex. The ball, I mean, even more so in a chair. But there it comes, the ball comes off a racket, and it flies and it's like, there's nothing that stops it. And it's like, it's hard to get to the level of playing the game, which is really what then gets us bought into the game, you know, once we're in the game, then then we start to love the nuances and start to feel that competitive spirit. You know, and that's I think that's one of the biggest challenges that tennis has is as an industry actually.

Alfie Hewett  28:12

Yeah, I completely agree. And I think that was what was so, so good for me at the early ages. It was so serious, I didn't take it seriously, it was all about playing with my siblings and other other people and just having a laugh. Like it was just fun. It never was. It just never was serious. I remember playing kilocalories to be the race the game, I'd be buzzing around every Wednesday, and I'm gonna make sure that I'm the last one standing and that and they're not going to catch my ball and back then so because all I cared about and then as you start to train a bit more, you start picking up skill, like you say, then things change a little bit. But, you know, I had some really good coaches at that first stage, I guess in my tennis career who just made it easygoing made me want to come back and even though there was frustrations, and maybe there was a few sessions that I had to be taken to, eventually, I found my love for restaurant history.

Daniel Kiernan  29:16

And you hit me Elvia. I've, I've had the pleasure of meeting you very briefly in the gym, at NTC. But I followed your career. Craig's a good friend of mine, you know, and I've listened to you over the years. It very clearly seems to me that you're a strong family man. You know, you've come from a tight knit family. You like teams around you? You know, and that seems to be something that you've, you've very much put in place. How, as you're going through that journey, and you're starting now to get into it and you're starting to move into playing to a relatively high level. You know, I know at 14 years old you went to the south of France. played an event, you know, so you start to get on the international stage? How important was it? Or is it to have have that strength of team around you and particular those loved ones in your family?

Alfie Hewett  30:18

Certainly I mean, even even now, I think a lot of my like success is down to the team that that I have around and I'm, I can proudly say that everyone that I've worked with my career has always had the best interest of not only my tennis, but also me as an individual. And I think that's what's so important in sport, especially me and Craig, Craig and Ben and everyone that is taking care of the individual. And now I've gone through some difficult challenges over the last few years, which, for me to be able to go out there and perform. We had to make sure that I was okay off the court and deal with all the all the stuff that was going on. But that's that transpires back to you know, when I picked up a racket for the first time, I've always had a unbelievably supportive family member, various members of my family taking me to events for being my mum, my granddad, or my auntie and my grandma, they've all they've all had to go and take me all around the country to eventually, obviously overseas as well, and it wasn't for, you know, their, their support, dipping their hands in their pockets, sacrificing their time, because it is a lot of traveling, it is a lot of expense as well. And we weren't particularly rich family, and we're not so they really committed, I guess, and they're so supportive, and it takes a lot of a lot of care, a lot of love and a lot of yeah, a lot of support really to, to do that could have been easily just stick to what you're doing and not progress. But they were always willing me to to be better. And they could always see a little spark in me. And I was told that by one of my first coaches that there's this attitude or behavior that you just can't, you can't teach someone, it's just there. It's like a natural competitiveness where I never say, Never Say Die, and I'll never give up and just want to win. Like I'm so hungry to win, I'm always, always wanting to be better as a tennis player, and as a person as well. And that was always very early stages of my career. And they could see that. So to try and get through to that was the biggest part because there was, like I said, it was quite, quite emotional. And, and it was a bit of a bit of a roller coaster. But you know, once I settled with, with Donna Andrews, who was a big part of my junior career, and also senior, that was where my sort of turning point in my career really took an incline, she installed a lot of very good habits in the discipline, a great mentality worked hard and bite one aim obviously a bit better. But you know, so much at that point that needed working on I think a lot of it was was mentality. And I'm very grateful for that. And very grateful for the people that have always been around me because like I said before, that they've always given 110%. And when you have people like that around you, you're always gonna thrive in that environment.

Daniel Kiernan  33:37

A lot of people don't understand this, but it strikes me that you absolutely do Alfie relationships go both ways. And you're the you're the star you're the player, you're at your tennis journey. However, what what you are not just you what players this could be in football, this could be in all sports, or, or any industries, what you give, will be also given back, like it can't just be that coaches or team around can just give, give, give, give give. And it seems to me that you really fully understand that that kind of back and forth between the team and I spoke to Craig and you know, Craig's words, I think sums it up quite nicely. And he basically said there's not enough superlatives to say about Alfie, you know and he deserves absolutely every what he said to your face maybe but you know that he deserves absolutely every bit of success that he gets. And that seems to be the strong message that comes back to you. So the question I'm asking you Yes, it's a it's an individual sport, or it's you and Gordon just beating everyone whenever you play them in doubles, which is obviously a team sport but as it as a as a team. And if you go back to, I know your mum had to give up her job. I know at times your granddad gave up jobs to travel. I know your granddad hasn't been well over the last couple of years. How much do you draw from that? So when you're playing, how big is your motivation to give back to those people that have given so much for you? And is that where it feels like there's just there's big emotion? That's, that's coming out when you're playing? Which is, which is such a strong driving force behind this almost desperation to win?

Alfie Hewett  35:37

Yeah, that's a good question, do question as well, is a massive motivator to me an hour, I want to give back to the people that have put in their time and sacrifice in to me, like you mentioned, my mom's had to make career changes to accommodate me and be more supportive of me more so as an individual, but then also as a as a tennis player as well. And my granddad who was suffering and is still suffering, he's an absolutely diehard fan who absolutely loves what I do, and very, very passionate about what I do. And my whole family, I think that's the thing. Now, when I look at my team, I don't see them as a team. I see them as a family, and I've always had family sort of relationships, you can say, with my team, when I when I worked with Donna beforehand. And even Stuart as well, before that, we're all very well connected with people that are close to me, and there's a good relationship and for me to feel safe, and almost protected with people I'm working with is such a big part of what makes me do what I do. And it's that's a definitely a two way street, because I need to earn that trust. And when we need to be honest and open and transparent in every situation, and every little thought and every little detail. And, you know, back when I was younger, obviously there was a lot of that, to help me get over the transition of being an a chair. So I guess when I go out there now, it's slightly changed. Because I like to say that I play for myself, I go out there and I win because I want to, I want to do it for me, I want to do it for the reasons that I play tennis, which is to of course be as successful as I possibly can, but also inspire a generation and train deliver that message. And if it is possible, it can kick start your journey, no matter what place and situation you are in that it is always possible. But deep down, I always want to do it for for my family as well. Because, you know, they, they, especially my sister and my brother, probably sick of it, they probably want their own identities in their life. But I feel like I'm carrying that, that way of success, to do it for them to make them proud to repay them all the trips, money and just support that they gave me back in the early days. And I think I can say I've done that now. So I'm proud of that. But, you know, even now I know, they're still some of my biggest fans, or they are my biggest fan and they're always watching. They're always screaming at the TV when I'm not doing well and probably criticizing me when I'm doing well still, as the way they are. And we have a we have a great, great bit of fun about that. But no, it's it's so deeper than just playing tennis for me. And I think that's, I thought you probably don't see. Yeah, why maybe you do see. I think anyone that knows me personally and is close to me can definitely agree and say that. That's why there's probably a lot of emotion. It's not just me going out there and playing the sports. It's me. It's who I am. It's the inspiration. It's it's the family that are behind me it's it's even my coaches, you know, that emotionally invested in what I'm doing, they care 110% about what I'm doing. And when I lose, they lose when I cry, they cry, you know, it's a lot. And when I win, they win and we celebrate as well you know, to difficult sport times very emotional sport, but there's a lot of elevation to play in. I've had many experiences with different motivations over my time, but I can say that piece with with why I'm playing now and I found my big way and classification gave me a massive obstacle to play in my career but right now is probably the most at peace I have been with with tennis and just being able to focus purely on what I'm doing and then the bigger picture as well and The inspiration you can have to others.

Daniel Kiernan  40:03

Very good. Alfie, do you see your career as successful?

Alfie Hewett  40:09

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, it's one that when you stop one day, whenever that day will be, I think I'll look back and reflect on it more positively than I do now. There's always a you hear this a lot, there's always another tournament to be played. And I'm very much thinking ahead to the next one pretty much all the time. But, you know, let's say something happened, and I was to retire right here right now. I'd be well, I'd be devastated that I never could get the Wimbledon and a gold medal. But once I got over that, and accepted that, I'd be very happy. While being that I just felt like I'm in my my absolute peak right now when it's growing by the tournament, and it's almost new territory for for us and for wheelchair tennis. So we don't know what's around the corner. This is the most amazing part of my career right now. And I'm enjoying it. I'm having to focus and learn on the job, really, but yeah, I'm happy with what I've done.

Daniel Kiernan  41:16

Good. And so you bloody should be 25 grand slams, you know what I mean? But you've, you're someone who's dealt with adversity, you were you were given adversity from? If you were in the womb, you were given some adversity, you know? So adversity is a thing that you've lived with. And you've you've overcome and develop this amazing growth mindset towards it. But back in 2020, you had some adversity, because they started looking at the guidelines of what, what does make a wheelchair tennis player, what's the criteria do you fit in, and I know that they looked into the Perthes Disease, and it was looked under quite quite a lot of scrutiny as to whether that was going to be we're going to be able to continue your career, and you will only age 23 At that time hanging over you potential forced retirement what what do you remember about that period? And what was the feeling when you were told, and the verdict was given that you were going to be able to continue?

Alfie Hewett  42:21

Yeah, I mean, it's a chapter of my life that was, was extremely difficult to manage. Obviously, I knew and understood the reasonings behind the classification changes. And there was never a direct attack or whatever against me or Perthes Disease, it was it was just the system that they initially put in place wasn't sport specific, in their own struct weren't struck by the I seek to deliver a new a new criteria for minimal impairment. And the criteria that they brought in wasn't wheelchair specific with a tennis specific should I say? So? Initially, when I was assessed against those rules, there was a handful of us that were deemed ineligible under the new criteria. And that was a really difficult decision to hear. And, obviously, a lot of thoughts go through through your mind at that point. At the early stages, you start thinking, what now? What in five years, what in 10 years, what am I going to do the uncertainty around the, the stability around your career is suddenly on the line. And as a 23 year old who had I mean, I felt like I'd pretty much secured a future job you know, in terms of wondering something this isn't something that I plan on leaving anytime soon. So you know, injuries can can sometimes get in the way and be a problem. But you know, at that age, it was certainly wasn't the case. So yeah, that was a very difficult part because I always felt like I didn't know what was going to be my last one. So you would arrive late arrive at an Australian Open and that was I think on paper, probably I say on paper that was probably the one of the difficult ones. Difficult, most difficult moment because I lost that. I think I lost a final there. And I didn't know obviously at that time that I was going to be given another year. And I'm just remember breaking down afterwards in the locker room because that was like I'll never win in Australia in singles. I'll never had the opportunity to to win that title that I was so desperate to win and it happened again. In the Paralympics happened again, obviously in Wimbledon. And after all these events that I just desperately wanted to win, and I didn't manage to do that. It would just feel like there's just be black cloud over my head, raining constantly, and I just couldn't escape the feelings of what that scenario gave me. You know, I dealt with it as best as I could have done because I remember sitting down with my team who I must say we're so, so awesome and so great and so supportive in that period. And I put all the success that I had in that period, down to them for keeping me somewhat sane. And mentally, they've all done it best. But in the zone and thinking about the tennis because it's like anyone you see who retires when you playing that last match, you see how they those emotions come up towards the end of the match. It was like that for me. And every single woman I played this, I didn't want to leave, I didn't want to stop doing what I was doing. And this was something that wasn't in my control. It wasn't my decision. It was it was obviously external one. I just hoped in that period that the criteria would change to a more sports sports specific one. And I knew that I would hopefully be assessed and given the green light from it. But I was never given that green light, I believed that I was going to have to start something new. And with that, I start looking at a new career path because I think playing being involved with tennis still would have been a little bit too raw for me. So I was prepared to start at the bottom of the ladder again and going to university do something something new, I didn't know what it was going to be. But I had to look at it that way. Otherwise, I think I would have been an even a been in an even darker hole that was already in. And yeah, I remember the one thing that I will always take now is I wanted that last year to be the best year of my life. I wanted it to be the if it was gonna be my last year, I didn't want it to be a flop. I didn't want it to be this just misery. And you know, this darkness and my goodbyes and farewells, were just tainted by emotion. And so I went out there with this mindset that you're gonna give absolutely everything. Just gonna give out. So everything right here right now. And that's all I can ever ask for myself. Because I think if at the end of the year, that decision ever got reversed. At least I can say that I gave 110% in the present. And that's taught me a lot of logical tips and lessons, I guess going forward about being present, that was probably the most difficult one that I'll ever I'll ever have. Because there was people talking about me behind my back or players talking about me. I had media asked me the same question every five minutes or it felt like.

Daniel Kiernan  47:41

People will people will read the headline. And the headline could even suggest that you're cheating. Yeah, that's that which is which is so crazy.

Alfie Hewett  47:52

No, I had a lot I had a lot of yeah, a lot of that. And, unfortunately, the people that were affected, but the targets meant that to be criticized for, I guess, credibility to be diminished. And that's how it felt like I would win, I did win I think a Grand Slam in that period. And I think the headline was more about classification than it was about the Grand Slam. And that's what I found really difficult. No one wanted to talk about the tennis. Everyone just wanted to talk about their situation and I could never escape it. So yeah, difficult.

Daniel Kiernan  48:30

You're a professional athlete. And the problem with professional athletes is you often have to go and train. So I'm I've got five minutes left with you, Alfie. And you've talked there about so we're Control the Controllables. And at that period, that wasn't a controllable for you. So you said early you love a challenge. And you love to have a problem to solve. You know, there was a certain element of that that was taken, taken away from you. Well, you have a current challenge and another problem to solve in a young 17 year old from Japan. Tokito Oda who was who was arrived on the scene. So how are you going to overcome this problem and find a solution to kick his ass back to Japan

Alfie Hewett  49:19

No, he's he's obviously he's come on the scene is very new and taking everyone a bit by surprise. We all knew he was coming up. I didn't think he would accelerate to the levels that he has this quick it's got an A very it's got a very aggressive game a very aggressive mindset. A Fearless mindset which is it's rare to find a thing and I say similar to like use an Alcaraz you see obviously and out presents nothing faze him and so you know what it was for particularly Takito and what he's doing to wheelchair tennis already because he's he's brought  A very aggressive, fast paced style. And that was happening anyway, I think there was there was certainly other players that have come in. I'll include myself in that who, who want to take wheelchair tennis to another level and more exciting level, quicker level. And he's coming in and he's doing that and he's protecting it and, and so I've now got to go back to the drawing board because the start of the year, I played him three times and one straight set smaller than the last few times I've played him. He's beat me fairly convincingly intwo Grand Slam finals were one of them's the first time on it on Philip Chattrier and the second one's on Court One that Wimbledon's quite quite being occasions and he's managed to settle into the match and play the sort of tennis that he's capable of. And I wasn't able to do that. So I think, I think a big part of that is, is learning because he's a leftie and there's not a lot of lefties on the tour right now, obviously, Gordon is one of them. But as I him, there's no one else is the way the ball kicks, kicks off, you know, off the serve is different or the way he pushes his tennis is very aggressive. So it puts a lot of pressure on me, I've got to train more like it I've got to get used to his intensity and what he's very good at. And we're giving away too many secrets, but just try and change a few of the things that I've been doing because I think there were things I was doing well at the start of the year, but then looking back, I probably didn't execute it as well in those previous finals. But it's a lot of analysis. A few years ago, analysis wasn't a major part of my my game but now the serve speeds are going up to 100 miles an hour for example and returns you don't get much of a play on those little marginal gains with certain directions or favorable patterns, things like that are going to become more important to me to be able to make the right decision there and then

Daniel Kiernan  52:05

Very good and we look forward to seeing that unfold, Alfie and I can see you know, we can see an a Nadal Federer style, style lefty against righty at you know, all over the next couple of years. I'm gonna have to get you on the podcast again, because there's loads we haven't spoken about. And there's there's there's lots more than

Alfie Hewett  52:27

201 part 2!

Daniel Kiernan  52:31

Well, exactly, exactly. So we're gonna have to do that again I'll be but very quickly I have to take you to the quick fire round otherwise our Control the Controllables fans will go crazy if we don't do our quick fire round. But before that, I just want to say a massive massive thank you one for coming on. Two for for sharing so openly three for inspiring us all. You know and you've got an amazing career you've got an amazing story. And you know, there's gonna be so many people listening to this but also now more and more people that rightly saw watching wheelchair tennis and just the incredible sport that it is and none more so than and I said this to Gordon when I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago I had I had two TV screens I had you guys on and I had Neal Skupski A good friend of mine on at the same time. And I'm sorry Neil but your match was much more entertaining, Alfie and the energy from the crowd you know the whole atmosphere and and that's now getting into our eyeballs and it needs to get into it even more so. So keep keep pushing that keep keep doing it keep inspiring. But are you ready for the quick fire round? Forehand or backhand.

Alfie Hewett  53:45

Backhand

Daniel Kiernan  53:46

Serve or return.

Alfie Hewett  53:48

Return

Daniel Kiernan  53:49

Singles or doubles.

Alfie Hewett  53:52

Doubles.

Daniel Kiernan  53:54

Favorite Grand Slam

Alfie Hewett  53:57

US Open.

Daniel Kiernan  53:59

What's one rule change you would have in wheelchair tennis?

Alfie Hewett  54:05

That's a good question. Spin backs means you can automatically win the set.

Daniel Kiernan  54:12

So if you spin the ball back over the net you automatically win the set one but that's good. Don't say that to Gordon you love that shot. That'll help that'll help Gordon out because he loves trying he loves trying that shot. Do you think that the classification system is fair?

Alfie Hewett  54:36

Cool, big question. In the open division, yes.

Daniel Kiernan  54:43

Most inspiring person in your life,

Alfie Hewett  54:47

My granddad

Daniel Kiernan  54:49

and the most inspiring tennis player to you and why?

Alfie Hewett  54:54

Andy Murray, because, I mean recently, obviously the adversity that he is had to overcome in his perseverance, to still want to go out there and be hungry for it and want to win so badly after everything, nor anyone. But the way he managed to win that Wimbledon final twice, especially after losing in 2012. I think having experience being on the other side of it losing to finals makes me really appreciate and value how, yeah. How would you get that?

Daniel Kiernan  55:30

What's the most pressure you've ever felt on a tennis court?

Alfie Hewett  55:34

Most pressure? Let's say the singles final this year?

Daniel Kiernan  55:41

What does control the controllables mean to you?

Alfie Hewett  55:44

Well, I think, for anyone to be able to control what is actually in your control, easy question, right. But there's so much are so many things that I think we focus on externally that aren't in our direct control, or we don't have influence on and being able to wake up every single day and just know that whatever it is that you're working towards, that you're striving for, if you tick off every box that that you set yourself and you set goals that you can achieve, and it has no influence on anyone else, then that's, that's the way to success. And the more you focus on what you can control and what you can, can push your boundaries and push your limits. The more the you can say the luckier stuff goes in your favor.

Daniel Kiernan  56:45

Love absolutely love that answer. What's one bit of advice for someone who has found out that they can't play able bodied sport,

Alfie Hewett  56:55

Find your local tennis club, I mean, just honestly give it a go. There will be places around the UK. There's more centers now having wheelchair tennis lessons going on. If it's something that interests you, then just especially if you've got a tennis background as well, like you'll, you'll master half of the battle with the tennis and just have to get used to obviously that wheelchair but if it's not tennis, then don't be afraid to just start something there. It doesn't mean it, I think believe sometimes in life, but things that happened to us for a reason and a bit of fate and how we respond to those adversities and choose to approach them will put you on a good path in life.

Daniel Kiernan  57:47

Very good. And as always, to anyone that listens to Control the Controllables was our last ever question on every episode. But before I ask it, you have the baton. So it is a responsibility of yours as a guest of Control the Controllables to help get this person on to the podcast next, who should our next guest be on Control the Controllables

Alfie Hewett  58:15

you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna stick with tennis. And because I think she deserves it and I know that there's we've we come from the same school and she's worked very hard to get to where she has Olivia Nichols

Daniel Kiernan  58:31

Yes. Olivia will be a great guest.

Alfie Hewett  58:34

I think she she's she's done amazing.

Daniel Kiernan  58:37

Same school. Yeah, that's cool

Alfie Hewett  58:39

We were at the same school she was a couple of years older than me and we were quite a small high school anyway. So it's the fact that one of us has got to where we are is incredible let alone both of us so the school maybe should turn into their academy for tenants. But yeah, and I know she struggled with injuries and had to really work hard to get to where she and I'm still missing. I've got to now so I would like to pass the baton over to her.

Daniel Kiernan  59:05

Brilliant Alfie, you're an absolute star. Thank you for your time. Yeah, all the best for for the for the rest of the year. We're all fully behind you. You get yourself to the gym and get yourself warmed up for that next session.

Alfie Hewett  59:17

Brilliant stuff now. It's been a pleasure being on here and sharing my story. So thanks for having me on

Victoria Kiernan  59:22

You don't you don't feel bad at all. But this is cool. There's first I mean they're looking at you across the table in our living room or in some dreary hotel somewhere so I you know, that's a pretty impressive backdrop you've got that.

Daniel Kiernan  59:22

Thanks Alfie. So here I am actually I've got Vickie on a screen and I am where Alfie Hewett has started his campaign here in New York and I know you probably feel a bit jealous I feel bad that we're doing this conversation with me on Arthur Ashe stadium Vicki I feel like a proper reporter. As I'm stood up holding my microphone on the court already got a few minutes because we've obviously got a lot of exciting action that's happening here in New York. But yeah, Alfie, what a what a story what a what an inspirational character he is. And I've had a couple of lovely chats with them. Our team in New York actually really is is like such a gentle giant in lots of ways because he, his personality is of a giant when he's when he's competing. Anyone that seen Alfie compete, you know, he roars these determined he has incredible energy, but he's just so softly spoken. So kind, you know, we've managed to get a couple of selfies together. I've been able to see I saw him in first round action. They saw a little bit of him and Gordon Reid we've also had on the podcast in action. It's so exciting the doubles I love watching the doubles, the wheelchair tennis doubles,

Victoria Kiernan  1:01:02

unless it was on last night on Sky. We're all watching. It was awesome to be able to just sit and yeah, sit and follow it from here because, you know, for years, it was never on like the mainstream channels. And you would never be able to sit down and watch wheelchair tennis, double men's doubles. So it was awesome. It is unbelievable. Their movement during a point is unbelievable.

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:24

It is in the skill level. And actually they're on Louis Armstrong to death. So here in New York, that's the second biggest court that there is so you know, all of these grand slams are taking it seriously now which they absolutely should do. You know, and these guys and girls are getting the respect that they absolutely deserve. And I'm looking forward to seeing how he progresses and he will be feeling in somewhere with we talked about the new up and coming Japanese player 19 years old. Well, he went out first round here in New York, which is a big shame.

Victoria Kiernan  1:02:00

Just yeah, just just check the drawer earlier on and I was like, Oh, he went out first round.

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:06

So yeah, but definitely did not just go out but went out 6-1 6-1 In the first round, so I don't know exactly what happened there. But I've got my fingers crossed. I'm going to be supporting I'm hoping for an Alfie Gordon singles singles final out here and obviously doubles for them to take the doubles as well. But one little interesting point actually, while we are in New York, it's you'll probably see the sweat dripping from my head right now.

Victoria Kiernan  1:02:32

Is that the roof the roof on

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:37

The roof is closed right now and we've got which doubles pair Harri Heliovarra who are working with Daniel, who they are they have got an opportunity to practice here on Ash before they're mixed doubles final on Saturday. But it's been so hot the last three days that you know, I was I was in the stadium watching Alcaaz Zverev last night and everyone's sat there sweating. Everyone's got towels. There's not a seat in the house. It's been incredibly supportive. But with the wheelchair tennis interestingly, they've actually the last two days they've actually had four or five hour gaps during the day. Now I'm not 100% Sure why exactly what it is why the heat wave is stronger for the wheelchair players somebody said to me that the quad the quad players they have to be really really careful in the heat. So they've almost across the board just said any wheelchair tennis isn't able to play I think it's above 35 degrees so that's been a little interesting thing that happened out here I wasn't sure whether maybe it was that the wheels get so hot for your hands or whatever it might be but certainly the temperatures we have Medvedev said on the on the center court yesterday against Rublev have that somebody's gonna die out here. You know if we're if we're not careful, which is maybe a little dramatic, but it truly is really hot, it's humid, it's sticky. And it's going to make for an interesting semifinals finals weekend coming up coming up.

Victoria Kiernan  1:04:09

I mean, never mind the players just the fans sitting in the stadium and that heat is just it's it's absolutely brutal. So yeah, it's what we have the same in the summer here at the Academy when we had players having to sit out from sessions we were talking about having to cancel or postpone and try and put later. I mean, it is brutal when the heat gets like that just to sit in it. So yeah, competing. It's a tough, it's a tough one for the tournament organizers for sure. In terms of this episode, you know, we talked about following Andy Murray would be a tough it'd be a tough act to follow. But this his story is is really it's so inspiring and it was lovely to hear him kind of children in a similar position and how you know, he really wants to try and inspire them how he how he wants to send the message that he can relate to how they're feeling, but also how much things have improved since he was at school.

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:06

Absolutely. And it's, it's heartbreaking, right? I mean, you, you put yourself in that position as a parent, you find out that your child, you know, one day they go into hospital, they come out in a wheelchair, and unable to do able bodied sports ever again, you know, live what we perceive a normal life to be. And you know, to have that news, but then to see, and I'm certain I'm a big believer in this that when things happen, we've talked about this before, say the word good. And that maybe is a bit simplistic for some people but and that can take time but the the ability mentally to be able to turn situations around and Alfie and also many of the wheelchair tennis players to be able to then go right this is now an opportunity for me to see the world for, for me to take something on and build these character traits that are going to give me this most of most amazing life, you know, and, and get to the absolute top of the game and then to be able to inspire to be able to change change the way that people view the world. And, and certainly Alfie Alfie has done that and taking all of that energy that could be used in an incredibly negative way. And he's turned it into a positive and I think it's, it's such a great life lesson for us. All right, you know, we all after experience, change difficulties, it doesn't mean that we all get told that we're going to be in a wheelchair, but we all do have these things as we go through this life. And I just Just think, what an incredible, incredible human being he is to be able to do that. And, and also incredible family, his support behind him, you know, from the coaches, but his mum, his grandfather, who speaks so fondly about, you know, it's a real feel good story. And yeah, it's it was a it was an absolute honor and pleasure to speak to Alfie.

Victoria Kiernan  1:07:04

That got me actually when he was talking about his family, and all the support that they they've given them, right, right from his diagnosis. I was. I was doing the listening to it for the first time when I was cooking the kids dinner and our youngest walked in and said, Mummy, what's wrong? I haven't had a cry on the podcast in a while. But yeah, once you start start talking about grandparents that gets me gets me every time. But yeah, what a support. They sound like they're still so close knit and what an impact that's had on on him as a person and his career I wrote down actually at the start when he said, I love a challenge, and I love a problem to solve. And you quoted that back to him as well during during your, your chat that it's, it's almost like that family unit has really helped mould mold, his personality mold, this toughness, mold his mindset. And when he did have that, I mean, that must have been horrendous waiting for a year to do say to find out if he could compete. So continue with his career, you know, his everything that he's been doing for the last however long his entire lifestyle could have just been taken away from him through no fault of his own. And his mindset, how he described it during that was just incredible.

Daniel Kiernan  1:08:25

I think I think for me, life, life is a team sport. You know, and I think that's, that's how we all have to view that. And that's certainly the message I take from this, you know, whatever we're going through in life is, is easier if we've got a team around us. And you know, family is everything, close friendships, everything. You know, that's in the sport that we love tennis, that is everything, you know, they see that here in New York, you know, there's a lot of tight knit teams, you know, you need to have people in your world who you can lean on and that's it can do that then you can achieve great things but you can also deal with deal with so much adversity that naturally gets thrown at us throughout life and I think that's the big message for me here. It's it's it as tennis is an individual sport, but get the right team around you. Life is not an individual sport either. You know, we get get get the best team that we can around us value those loved ones incredibly closely. And we were able to we're able to deal with most things that are thrown at us and I thank you very much Alfie for for sharing those inspirational messages.

Victoria Kiernan  1:09:40

And it sounds he hinted that something was coming up the knee so it sounds like he certainly speaks very passionately about helping the next generation. So yeah, it sounds like he's got something in the works. He'll continue to do that. I'm just trying to look at the singles is he through to the quarters now or the semis of the singles

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:00

The quarters quarters of the singles or doubles

Victoria Kiernan  1:10:05

you're going to be able are you going to be able to watch some of them again today?

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:09

Yeah, I'm so I'm gonna get out there where I'm on court right now with with Harri and Anna as they prepare for their Saturday mixed doubles final. And then yeah, sounds I mean, this is not going to happen very many weeks of my life. But then Gaby Dabrowski and Erin Routliffe I've been helping as well. They have their women's doubles semifinals tomorrow. They've had some incredible results this week. So, so rare, it's all yeah, I've got to soak it all in because I've got an hour and a half on Arthur Ashe stadium now. I then jump across the grandstand stadium for an hour and a half with the girls as they prepare for for their semi final tomorrow. And then I plan on spending the next couple of hours watching Alfie and also Gordon Reid in action. If I can, I want to see a little bit of Hannah Klugman as well. She's 14 years old British girl already through to the quarterfinals of the singles, meaning you sue who we've had out to sort of tennis academy. She's partnering Hannah, and I believe they're in the quarterfinals also of the doubles. They won in 39 minutes yesterday in there. Yeah. And I saw her being interviewed by Tim Henman and on Sky and wow, she speaks well, so self-assured. Super superstar great, great coach and Ben Herron is gone places you'll you will absolutely clear her name loud and clear over the over the next few years as long as she stays healthy of course, but head screwed on good parents. Good coach support, proper tennis player, great athletes, big big big things coming in for sure.

Victoria Kiernan  1:11:56

We'll go in go and support all the Brits it sounds like you're having a terrible time.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:01

Oh, it's terrible. I'm hating every minute of it. But yeah, but we will be back as as always. Those lots of photos, lots of videos you know experiences that memories this is this is what we do it for. This is what the sports given us. I feel very thankful to be having this incredible two weeks and that's on the back of the whole of SotoTennis Academy and everything that they are doing not everyone back at base so a big shout out to all of them. Let's see how the weekends we've got potentially Alcatraz Djokovic coming on Sunday. It looks like it's going to be difficult not to see that and Coco Gauff who we we all chose as our one to watch. She's obviously through to the semi finals. I can't see it not being a Coco Gauff Sabalenka final Sabalenka Is is a beast. Being on the court next year a couple of times she hits the ball so hard. And if she keeps her nerve, I can see a Sabalenka Gauff final as well. But we'll be discussing that all next week in our review of the US Open. Once back home in the comfort of the house, talking to the panel next week.

Victoria Kiernan  1:13:11

Well a big good luck to Harri and Anna in the mixed final so exciting for them and to Gaby and Erin in the women's semis and if you see Alfie and Gordon to have a massive Good luck from us all at SotoTennis. They're going for their calendar slam, aren't they? They're one Aussie, French and Wimbledon. So fingers crossed, they can do it again and get all four and then yeah, like you said hopefully, it's an Alfie Gordon final.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:36

Really and we look forward to bringing lots more of you over the next few weeks. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables