Year in Review: A Look Back at our Favourite Moments of 2023

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Daniel Kiernan  00:10

Welcome to Episode 211, of Control the Controllables, and our final episode of the year. And we hope you have had a great festive period, wherever you are in the world. And this is a little opportunity. I have Vicki beside me, as we're going to look back over the last 12 months of Control the Controllables and some of our most memorable moments. Are you ready?

Victoria Kiernan  00:40

I am. I'm excited. Actually, we didn't do this last year. And I can't remember why. But

Daniel Kiernan  00:45

Time.

Victoria Kiernan  00:46

Probably, but I missed it. Yeah, it's a nice a nice chance to sit down and stop and go through the year, which we actually don't ever do. So let's go. So

Daniel Kiernan  00:57

Come on, you're the boss, where are we going to start.

Victoria Kiernan  01:01

Only purely because it's in chronological order. It started I think, I think we were near the start of 2023. We were voted the best tennis podcast at the Sports Podcast Awards for the second time, which was really exciting.

Daniel Kiernan  01:18

And that that must go to all of you guys a big thank you for everyone that did vote. And if you did vote last year, maybe you could vote for us this year as well, because we only found out last week that we've also been shortlisted for the Tennis and Racket and maybe this is a sign of things to come, this

Victoria Kiernan  01:40

This is going to be our downfall. This is broader. It's no

Daniel Kiernan  01:43

It's no longer just a tennis category. So tennis and racquet category in the 2024 Awards, a little kind of plea to you guys, we're going to leave the link in the show notes. Anyone spares a couple of minutes, it might seem a little bit fafi. But as long as you get your email in the email address and your name, and you get that vote for Control the Controllables. Who knows three times in a row?

Victoria Kiernan  02:10

I don't know. I keep saying if I was the organizer, I wouldn't, I'd want someone else to win to make it interesting. So let's see. Let's see, we can only try. But really what control the controllables is about is you the listener and over the last three and a half years now we've had one guest in particular that you guys have been asking for repeatedly. And in August, this happened.

Andy Murray  02:37

This is Andy Murray on control the controllables coming soon,

Victoria Kiernan  02:41

And it was even better than we'd hoped. I think it was an unbelievable episode, three years of you hounding him I probably I think he probably just agreed in the end just to get you off his back

Daniel Kiernan  02:51

Don't say that's not that's not how it was at all i i saw it and he was begging me to come on to Control the Controllables. So we we finally allowed him to come on back in August. And I know from their reaction that you guys absolutely loved it. And Andy, if you are listening to this, you're a star mate, thank you very, very much for for that.

Victoria Kiernan  03:14

You said he'd given you 30 minutes. He was where was he? What tournament was the at?

Daniel Kiernan  03:19

He was out in America somewhere. And we'll see that he was eating a peanut butter and banana sandwich. For anybody out there looking for some nutritional advice. And he came on he was he wasn't around a match. I don't think you speak to Andy Murray around a tennis match. I know that well enough that you to avoid him then. But it was it was after a practice session. He was done. He's cooled down. These coaches were bringing him his food and he was sat there as he was taking off his sweaty shoes. And he said look Dan, I've only got 30 minutes and then 90 minutes later, we were still having a good old chit chat, which is the mark mark of of the great man. And actually you covered

Victoria Kiernan  04:04

so many topics in those 90 minutes. And if you haven't listened to it, go and find it. It really is a cracker. He was our special guest for our 200th episode of control the controllables. So an easy one to look for episode 200. But we also had another another Wimbledon champion on this year as well. And this one was a really interesting one because in September, we had our first podcast intern start on Control the Controllables we've had an intern internship program at Soto Tennis Academy now for the last four years, five years now. We've always linked up with Bath University in the UK and everyone that has come out of there has been amazing. But this year we've had a we've had Exeter University, Birmingham University, we've had our biggest intake of interns, and it always works really well. It's part of the university degree they come out to the academy and work for a year or so. As the as the podcast has grown, we thought it would be this year would be the perfect opportunity to bring in a podcast intern. And back in March, April time we had our interviews and we gave all the applicants a couple of tasks. And one of those tasks was to come up with research notes on a potential guest. And at that time, the potential guest was Pat Cash. And we thought it would be an easy one in some regard to find lots of information, but also hard to find something that maybe our listeners and us might not know about him. And one applicant took the time to read Pat Cash's book and came up with a question that we hadn't we hadn't heard before in relation to Pat. And we actually won. Well, it was in it was in the book, it was in the book. So anyone that has read the book would have known it. But yeah, the the question that you brought up actually made it into the chat Dan had with Pat.

Daniel Kiernan  05:57

I think you'll see from from the clip, actually, just how surprised Pat was that we'd managed to find this piece of information. And I think needless to say, we give that guy Fergus a big shout out to Fergus, the job. It's amazing to speak to you but I, I have to get some some truths. You read a lot on the internet. And it's like, Is this is this true? And the starting point is that I read somewhere that early on in your career, there was a Hungarian princess, who, who offered you a gift of $1 million. But apparently you didn't accept the money. So did what is this true? And did you ever find out if this was real? Or a scam?

Pat Cash  06:46

Where did you get that story? That is actually yeah, Bacchus Buster told you that. This was the weirdest thing. Yeah. Yes. No, I didn't get the money. I didn't know who it was. Allegedly, it was some lady who I didn't want to be indebted to some lady. I didn't know who it was. We loved me and wanted to give me a million dollars. Allegedly, we heard a rumor that something happened with Jimmy Connors, similar. And I talked to him said I, yes, you did do to me as well. But I didn't. I might have just, you know, a million dollars is a lot back in those days to give to somebody and I didn't know what, yeah, it just just didn't smell right. And I got one of my management group to see if she was real to go over and say hello to her. And she wrote a letter back, say, How dare you send your management people over to see if I was real, of course I'm real. And then there's no, there's no such thing as a Hungarian princess? I don't know. They were just smelled a rat. And God knows what. Yeah, so it was. I don't know if she's a princess? I don't know. I don't know. But

Daniel Kiernan  07:54

If you are listening in hungry, me and Pat will happily go halfeez now

Pat Cash  08:02

think she's probably gone to central holding, donate some money to something but I couldn't. I don't know. It was just, it's too many question marks for that one.

Daniel Kiernan  08:13

And that was a short clip from Pat Cash. He was a brilliant guest. But also Fergus has been a brilliant placement student here at the Academy. And for anyone listening, you might have a relative it might be yourself, it might be someone that you know, we have now opened up applications for our placement program. Next year on the podcast, we will again, put the link of that in the show notes. anyone's interested then get in touch. I'm telling you right now, a year in the sun in Spain, having the fun that we have. There's a lot worse placements that you could be getting involved in. And another first for us as well. You know, we know that everyone leads a hectic life. And there's so many things that are going on in all of our lives. So to find an hour, an hour and a half to listen to a podcast episode is not always the easiest thing to do. So we have started over the last few weeks, our Podcast Shorts edition, which is us looking back over the hundreds of episodes that we have, and picking out some really profound clips that we feel that we've taken so much from and pulling them into a short little episode. And so far, we've had three of those that have gone out there Valorie Kondos Field, who, if anybody listens to the podcast, we'll know how much we love Valerie, and how much we took from her. And then Tom Gullickson, the world's best storyteller. I challenge anybody to listen to that one, and not have a tear in your eye. And then of course, Andy Murray in already we've started picking his episode apart, because there's just a wealth of knowledge and insight in there. So I hope you've enjoyed listening to those. Certainly the feedback that we've received so far has been fantastic. And we plan on taking those into 2024 as well.

Victoria Kiernan  10:09

And there was also a first for you, the sheer being invited by the British tennis Journalists Association to their end of year awards and Christmas lunch very posh. How was your imposter syndrome that day?

Daniel Kiernan  10:21

Yeah, pretty big at the start, to be honest. I mean, when the email came through, I thought it was spam. I thought what the what the talking about I thought was a quite creative way to try and get me to open a link. And I spent the whole day wondering if I was there, or why I was there, actually. But it was it was fantastic. Actually after that. It was like that first day at school when you're not sure if you're going to know anyone and kind of walked in and yeah, look

Victoria Kiernan  10:51

Who did you attach yourself to?

Daniel Kiernan  10:53

Yeah Yaz Clarke, who you will be hearing in 2024. Who Jay Clarke's sister, Yaz, a fantastic player herself, a coach and also a commentator. That was the first friendly face I saw and I was almost kind of clinging on to her for dear life. And then luckily, I guess a little bit like this podcast, really, we don't quite know how many people we do know, in this world that we we've lived over the last 30, 40 years. And it was great to see so many friendly faces, and meet some some new ones as well. And but lots of great conversations, a great meal. And a big, big thank you to Stuart Fraser, from The Times who's the chairman who did a fantastic job, and now was really honored to be invited. But what I want to I do want to go into all of the amazing learnings from 2023. You know, I think when we set this podcast up, it was about energizing, educating and entertaining everybody through the pandemic. And I don't think we quite realized how much we were going to learn from this process and so much and also how much it's energized us and entertained us. Maybe we maybe we add the fourth E in, and it's impossible to talk about every single story because there's been so much but we have just picked out a few main topics that have come through loud and clear in 2023. And the first one actually that just want to want to look into was around Federation's. We were very lucky this year to speak. I know there was a lot of talk around Czech Republic and the success that they had certainly on the women's side of the game, and just after Wimbledon after Marketa vondrousova had won, Wimbledon, and also all of those crazy stats of that they've had in the Junior Tennis as well. And we just see time and time again, a player from the Czech Republic come through, we had Yan scotches, who's the performance director of Czech tennis. And we talked looked at the tournament structure, we've talked a lot about that about Spanish tennis, how they do such a great job of their tournament structure, about traveling with with small groups of coaches, and that's something Thomas your Hansen, who was on recently, the 2002 Aussie Open men's singles champion, he talked about that how Swedish tennis was the absolute height of the game all of those years ago, and now it struggles. And he sees that as the biggest reason being that they now don't travel in small groups with with one coach. And then we talked with Dan, how it really is, it's a change of mentality. And this is hard for some people to understand. Because in Czech Republic, it is actually seen as a route to success. You know, and I think in lots of countries, tennis is just an extra curricular activity, whereas very much that path has been set for many before that parents are putting their young girls into tennis to make them into champions. And that's very much how they are thinking. But we particularly wanted to ask Jan about the tournament structure and the tournament system in the Czech Republic.

Jan Stoces  14:25

Well, this is this is actually the part two of the shorter duration system, because then the part one, we've been talking about it for the last maybe half an hour. But Part Two is obviously the great tournament system. And this This, in my opinion, is the is maybe even more important. How to become a top player because you've been just mentioned just just now, you know, you need the kids to compete and play. It's not not just about the practice. It's of course More than very important to have the system with great coaches, but it's about the competition. And obviously we have, we have a check tournament system, which is which is great and is connected with the maximum number of Tennis Europe tournaments under 12, 14, 16. And then obviously, connection connected with the ITF, under 18. And then futures and the ITFs. For for a woman's Advanced and Challengers I'm just now sitting in in liberates ATP Challenger. And, you know, I think this is exactly what you need. So you need in the system to have from undertand until demands. And then, of course, if you have so many tournaments, it saves money, it saves energy, save time, your coaches, your coaches, which are working in the clubs or centers, they are able to travel to the tournament, which is very often a big problem, because you know, to pay coach traveling around the world, is almost impossible. Only if you are if you are a millionaire. And like this, you, you have to show that your coach is going with you, and he's seeing you how you're playing. And he can work with you during the tournament. And this is definitely definitely the the key point for Spain. But it's also key point for for Czech Republic.

Victoria Kiernan  16:20

You know, I was thinking about this yesterday. You know, the name of the podcast is control the controllables. And what he says makes so much sense about the tournament structure. But as a parent of three young tennis players, you know, it's not we're very, very fortunate here to have the so many tournaments going on at the weekend. But we speak to parents in the UK and in other countries a lot who don't have those opportunities. They, they might have to travel three hours on the weekend to get to an event that's the relevant age and level for their child. You know what? We're not in control of that, of that, as parents that is the Federation that is, you know, the areas where we live, what can we do as parents to get the kids playing more competition to get them playing matches?

Daniel Kiernan  17:12

Well, I think I think that my first answer to that is there's always something that we can do. You know, and I think the biggest thing for me actually, around the control, the controllables mindset is, every situation we're in, we can look at it one of two ways, right? You know, we can we can compare, and then we can kind of look down at ourselves and, and say, How was me and play the victim mentality? Or we can say, Okay, this is this is what we are dealing with? And how are we going to make the best of it, and to give some practical ideas for that, and I'm gonna use a couple of live examples. I know, Liam Brody, when he, when he was brought up, Liam, brought players to him, you know, and his dad was coaching him, and they would bring in older adults, and he would play sets every day. You know, it might not be what we see as a live competition. But you would have people that would just come in, and they would just play 2, 3, 4 sets a day. You know, everyone talks about Venus, and Serena never playing competition when they were younger, that's a load of codswallop. You know, they for sure they did they had, they had competition happening all the time, in a practice environment, you know, by people coming in. So I think we need to almost reframe what competition is, competition doesn't just have to be that you get in the car, you get on an airplane, and you go, and you fully sign up to this big official tournament, and it's got all these ranking points attached. And that's what it is, it can it can also be you bringing it to yourself. And I guess a couple of little ideas that I would give is, you know, you box leagues, you know, having a little bit of proactivity and going okay, the the clubs in the area, let's set up some little box leagues. And what a box league would be, as you would have, let's say, eight players in Division One, eight players in Division two. And throughout the course of six weeks, you organize a match, and you play your seven matches two people get promoted two people get relegated, and you make your own internal competition, you know, so I think these are the sorts of things that I think tennis is an independent sport. So we have to think a little bit more independently and not just wait for somebody to put something in front of us. So I know in a country like Spain, it's much easier. We've said it a million times 350 tournaments a year in our region. Bang, I just did that today. For 2024. There is so many options. However, there is ways of you also bringing that a little bit closer to you and and also making that more more affordable and Who knows, you know that that that challenge of doing it can also build a real resilience and a real desire to want to want to do it. And if you've got a strong enough, well, there's always a way.

Victoria Kiernan  20:15

That's almost a seamless link into the next thing that I wanted to talk about. One theme that came up a lot this year was resiliency amongst players and how often that resilience was built from going through a challenging, difficult period.

Daniel Kiernan  20:33

Just like I was saying, I've got quite a big thing on this is, players that have it easy, and get all the funding and all the wildcards and everything put in front of them. They never actually know if they want to do it. Whereas if you if it's hard for you to do some fun, and you've got to overcome a lot of obstacles in order to do it. Yes, you build resilience, but you also build an unconditional desire and want to achieve. And you then in turn end up being, in my opinion, more curious about the sport, you're just more attached to it from such so many different levels. You have more gratitude for the opportunities that you have, you know, so many of these skills that then go on. And this is not just a tennis thing, of course. But but it does. It does test us. And as my dad used to say, when I was younger, it's character building. Son it's character building. And I used to really annoy me, but it's true. And we've got lots of examples of that. And, you know, throughout this year that definitely came out loud and clear. And the first one that jumps to mind is Patricia, Hy who I mean, goodness me you listen to that story. And it's like, what am I mean? Like, it's some kind of Netflix movie thing? And how is this, someone's gone through this just to get out of the country to be separated from family members to, you know, change nationalities to not see your parents for many years, and then and somehow become the world's 28th best tennis player. And it's like, just completely incredible, and a massively inspirational story. And then, of course, Andy Murray, you know, all arguably the most resilient and competitive tennis player. Certainly that GB's ever seen, you know, what it what he's been through every single match. And I remember Emily Webley Smith saying this, the way he wiggles himself into matches is just like, like no other. And I had to ask him, and I asked him why he thought that this was the case. And when you reflect now at 36 years old, on the horrendous event that happened back in 1996 in Dunblane, that at the school that you were at. Do you think that had an impact that that the trauma that you went through the togetherness of a town that comes together. Do you think, you know, we often look at success stories? This seems to be some traumatic event that has happened. I don't know how you've reflected on that over the years.

Andy Murray  22:49

I mean, it is difficult to know exactly where it came from. I really do think that growing up with, you know, a brother, who was also in the sport, who's, you know, Jamie is 15 months older than me, and he, you know, he was a really, really good Junior, through until sort of 14, 15 years old, and just competing with him. Like as, as a kid, you know, he used to beat me at everything. When, when I was little, and I see it in my own children that, you know, the younger ones, they seem to be the more competitive ones, because you get used to losing at a young age, and it's extremely frustrating. And you're always wanting to beat your siblings or be able to do what they're doing. And, yeah, because so much of our upbringing was in sport, so it wasn't just tennis, we play with each other, it was golf, football, you know, table tennis, any of the games that we used to play around the house. You know, Jamie was always just that he was always a little bit better than me a little bit faster, stronger, smarter. So he would beat me a lot when we were kids. And my feeling is is that by, you know, that that is what used to drive me to improve and get better at things when trying to beat my my older brother. And yeah, and then it just became, you know, normal for me was like trying to figure out ways to, you know, to win and get better and, you know, took me until we were about 910 years old before I started, you know, getting the better of them at tennis, but that's that's my feeling of where it you know, where where it came from, but I'll never know for sure. Yeah. I mean, again, I don't know, my memories from like, from that time, you know or not, are not great. Yeah. I mean, obviously, what happened in Dunblane was yeah, it was. Yeah, it was horrific. You know, but then also, like, at that time, there was a three quite major events like, in my life at that time, which was obviously Dunblane, quite soon after, you know, our parents separated, and then very soon after that Jamie moved away to, to Cambridge, away from home. And, you know, as I was just saying, like, I used to do everything with Jamie like, as, as children, it was, yeah, we, we were, I would say we're probably reluctantly, best friends. And that, you know, like, we're fighting obviously a lot as siblings, but we did everything together. And then when he moved away as well, like, that was also, you know, that was really difficult, you know, really difficult for me, because, yeah, it totally changed. You know, how, what, what my life was like, at home as well. And yeah, I missed him a lot. Which probably at the time, like, you know, when you're a kid, you just kind of, you sort of get on with things and you adapt to stuff. But yeah, I think that, you know, all of those events like in quick succession, were not, not easy.

Victoria Kiernan  26:52

And this was a recurring theme really, that continued when we spoke to Alfie Hewett, who was number one in the world men's wheelchair tennis player, he he's had an unbelievable year 17 titles 10, doubles seven singles, five of those grand slams, and amazing into the year as well being nominated at the Sports Personality of the Year awards. I know I know, I was I was rooting for him. He spoke to us very openly about his childhood, which saw him being a sports mad young footballer to being diagnosed age six, with Parthes disease, which saw him have to transition into a wheelchair and how he dealt with that at school, how his family encouraged him and kept were very, very proactive and finding sports that he could still be involved in, you know, the sports mad kid. And he told us how he wants to use his story and his platform now to inspire others.

Alfie Hewett  27:51

That was the big thing for me at the time. It was like I don't like being different goals different from from everyone else, you know, no one else was in the chair. No one else was having to sit on a different table in school because everything had to be adapted. But and I didn't like that I was been the the different one, I guess, in school. And so yeah, I guess that was a big reason as to why I just hated being in the wheelchair and hated what was happening to me because I just wanted to feel like I don't like using it, especially now that feel normal feel included. And I think when I look at society now and I hear and see people who are who have disabilities, it's so much better, it's it's way more educated and schools are way more prepared for for that sort of adjustment if needed. So, yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  28:43

I think it's really, it's an inspirational story, Alfie, but I think it's, it needs to be heard. There's somebody out there listening to this. That is in that situation. Right now.

Alfie Hewett  28:57

That's why I feel passionate about inspiring. It means a lot because I was that kid, and I know there'll be people that watch me play on court, one at Wimbledon. Think, man, this, this guy's amazing what he does, he plays wheelchair tennis, he's an inspiration. But what people don't know was I was also that, that same child that I think many children, you know, they face adversity, they face bullying, a change of lifestyle, struggling with mental health, all of those key topics that you know, everything that they go through, I've gone through and for me, sport was what really dug me out of that hole. You know, we haven't we haven't touched me yet. But it was That's why I got into wheelchair tennis wasn't because my mom was like, Alright, we're gonna break the next wheelchair tennis, Grand Slam players. Just help his, help his help his mental health. It's getting back to the game. Let's make new friends and play with the family in terms of being able to play together, things like that. I know there's so many youngsters that our position and even teenagers that we felt very similar things to what I was going through and openly talking about therapists counseling when I was when I was younger, I had a lot of anger problems, and what people don't know is why I'm very emotional player on the court as well, you see that. very emotive out there. And but you know, back then, was, it was a difficult, difficult period. And so I went through all the same feelings and emotion there's a lot of youngsters with disabilities are struggling with, I just hope that I can relay that message, whenever I get the opportunity to use my platform to share my story. And to know that what I'm doing right now didn't just happen overnight, there was a long, long process, and you know, I can I can relate.

Daniel Kiernan  30:54

Yeah, and it all it almost feels in that moment. Because there's various reasons why youngsters get into those dark holes, you know, on it, it can be a disability, it could be race, it could be sexuality, it could be bullying, it could be you know, it could be a number of various things that put us in there and more and more of the way social media is that it's a brutal world out there right now. And the question that I now want to move to and you've touched on it, Alfie, is how did you get out because, you know, that's the bit that it feels like, I'm never going to get out of this, I'm never going to be able to accept it. And you've talked there, you started you mentioned your mum. Now the, my understanding of your of your journey, that stage, I know your mum was a massive, massive influence and and also your grandfather was a big, big influence as well. You know, to be taking you to these new sports to be trying them out to then obviously, everything that then goes with it. And I know there was some big sacrifices that were made. But the starting point if you go back to when you first started playing tennis, playing tennis is hard anyway. You know, but sticking you in a chair. It's it's an extremely difficult sport. We did you take it up straight away was were you a natural. Was it a challenge? What do you remember about that period?

Alfie Hewett  32:25

I can I can definitely say I wasn't a natural. I didn't. It didn't come very easy to me. But I did lots of different sports and that was, you know, go back to your initial statement or and how do they get out of it? Well, I found the purpose again.

Daniel Kiernan  32:42

Talk about inspiring he certainly massively inspired myself and, and so many over the course of this year, and I'm so excited that his platform and the wheelchair tennis platform is is growing and and I have to share Vickie just very quickly. The little story we were watching Neal Skupski's men's doubles final at Wimbledon, on the TV here at home. And Neal, a good friend of ours and excited to be watching him play on Centre Court. But then we have the iPad set up watching Alfie and Gordon playing on their final on Court One. And the noise on call one was 10 times the noise on Center Court. And I think that I get goosebumps thinking about it. You know, that is what I'll for you at Gordon Reid. And everyone on the wheelchair tour right now are doing you know, they're, they're spreading that amazing word of what is possible. And yeah, to be up close and personal. have these conversations with people like Alfie is truly truly inspiring.

Victoria Kiernan  33:50

Yeah, he was he was amazing. One of the things, I guess, looking back on the year, it's not just you know, who was an unbelievable guest and what lessons we've learned, but also, what could we have done better? What did we not do quite so well? And what can we improve going into 2024? I'd say the one thing we failed at this year, again, is encouraging more female players and coaches to come onto the show. We're still predominantly male, it's still male voices that we will agree to come on and talk and that's something that we've discussed. We've talked about ourselves what why that is, but we have had some unbelievable female guests this year.

Daniel Kiernan  34:35

And are absolutely and before I jump into the section, please please anybody that's got anyone that would like to come on knows any females that want to come on because we do want to continue having all voices on this podcast and, and attacking all topics. You know, I think it's so important that so many of these areas are discussed with coming from every Single Lens within within the sport and a big topic that, at the start of the year, Wimbledon announced a breaking in their tradition, which was a big breakthrough for the way that Wimbledon have traditionally worked, which would allow female players to wear colored undershorts under their dresses and skirts to reduce the anxiety whilst on their period. And, you know, this has been a long time coming, and being able to have a couple of players over the year over the year, jump on to the podcast and discuss this in a little bit more depth. And getting these conversations out there far and wide. And just after the announcement was made by Wimbledon, we had Tamara Zidansek who has been a semifinalist and Roland Garros as high as 20 in the world. And she came on and discussed this very topic.

Tamara Zidanšek  35:57

I think that's very important, the mental health and just because, I mean, I'm the luckiest girl, I can say I've had my period, and when well then two out of three times that week, but I normally feel good with that I don't have any problems. So but it is important because it takes honestly, two weeks out of out of the month where you are going to be up and down, and then to worry about this having to wear whites. And that's just one element that can be taking out that doesn't need to stress you. And that's really good that I did that. I know, it's a tradition. And it's hard to break the tradition. But I think that was a very good move.

Daniel Kiernan  36:47

But and it even I think Tamara opens up and normalizes this conversation. You know, you know, which, which I think is, you know, I've worked with with quite a few girls, women or over over the years. And it's a very normal conversation. It's a very normal part of and an important topic, you know, if you're when you're when you're working with someone, like you say, you know, different people will react differently during during their periods before their periods. Is it from a mental standpoint? Is it from how their body is? Is it? You know, I know many players that have experienced that they get so tired that they can't lift the same weights in the gym, you know, all of these? Yeah, it was a bit of a taboo topic, you know, or has been a bit of a taboo topic topic over the years. So that must be a positive as well.

Tamara Zidanšek  37:35

Yeah. To me, it was never a taboo topic, because I mean, it's just part of nature, you know. But yeah, I mean, again, like we said, we need to speak about things to process our feelings, our emotion. So it's good that it's out there. If it's going to help some people feel better about the situation, then it's done its job No.

Victoria Kiernan  38:01

And talking about Wimbledon. We also spoke to Andrew Jarrett this year, who is who was the tournament referee for 14 years at Wimbledon. And he shared some great stories from his time at the tournament and his playing career. Well, well worth the listen that episode 191 If you haven't heard it already, but

Daniel Kiernan  38:21

As you're talking about Wimbledon, Vicki, I think we also have to look at the tennis itself and the tournaments that are being played in particularly the Grand Slams. And a big part of what we do here at control the controllables is we preview and we review every single Grand Slam and it's been an incredible Grand Slam year we've had four different women's singles winners, and three first time winners throughout the year on the men's side, the single side Mr Djokovic has dominated very much so but we did have the classic Wimbledon final where we saw Carlos Alcaraz take him down. And then on the men's doubles side again, four different winners, including two British winners. And I have to shout out Rajeev Ram and Joe Salisbury, who have been loyal guests of Control the Controllables as they made history in New York winning their third title in three years.

Victoria Kiernan  39:22

And this they joined a really special episode this year. I think, you know, I said I loved Andy Murray, but I loved this one as well. It's not very often we get six grand slam winners on one episode. And that was all the winners of the doubles events at the US Open. And it also made it extra special because Dan was involved with the other two winning teams at the US Open, which were Gaby Dabrowski and Erin Routliffe who won the women's doubles and Harri Heliovaara and Anna Danilina who won the mixed doubles but an incredibly special two weeks for you Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  40:01

Yeah, no, it certainly was. And I think, for the players more so you know, the, but just to be fortunate enough to be alongside these incredible athletes to see them get the reward for what they've put in all the over so many years. It was Yeah, a bit of a bizarre moment, you know, and even if I look back now, it doesn't feel like it was a real week. And you know, you as you're sitting there on Arthur Ashe court, and can't even imagine what the players are thinking after something like that. Because you do you start to kind of flush through many different parts of your, of your tennis journey. And certainly for me, I found myself actually wanting to send messages to coaches and people that have been heavily involved in my tennis. And also, I would love to have done that also with the coaches. And the ones that I do know who who have coached Gaby, and coached Harri over the years. I certainly did. But I think it's just we all we all know how much goes into just being a half decent tennis player. You know, never mind being a Grand Slam champion. So a real privilege to be a part of their, their special moment. And, yeah, let's see if they can build on that into 2024 as well.

Victoria Kiernan  41:24

And as you say, whenever we speak to a Grand Slam champion, that's something that can never be taken away from them. But in this episode I was talking about we did have the three doubles winners on which was amazing, because we got to it was really cool. We got to ask them all about it. And Harri and Anna, the mixed doubles champions had a really interesting story because they hadn't even met each other before the tournament and Harri kind of told this story didn't he on court I think was it after they won the semis to get to the final he did yeah. And in this doubles episode, you you ask them both to tell us a little bit more about that.

Harri Heliovaara  42:02

Yeah, I think blind date is a good term for that we I didn't know who she was before and we we both ended up in the in the referees office where they have the where they have the papers to sign in for mixed doubles and they also have the paper for people who are looking for a partner. I mean, I had been there a couple of times before checking if there were any girls looking for a partner but then one time I went there and she was there just writing her name there on the list and

Daniel Kiernan  42:31

To get this right to get this right Harry. You were just hanging out at the referees office looking for girls?

Harri Heliovaara  42:38

That's the place to meet some nice girls No, I'm very proud of myself. I was so brave boy and I asked her to send a message but I asked her oh he said you

Daniel Kiernan  42:53

2023

Harri Heliovaara  42:57

Right um yeah, maybe I'm a little bit old fashioned in that way but no no, we we had a few few words there decided okay let's play let's see if we can get in and and there we are. Winner there's one more thing that was actually very funny I didn't tell anyone yet but just before the signing deadline close the ATP Tour manager called me and said Harry you're you're on the list with two different partners

Daniel Kiernan  43:22

Two timer

Harri Heliovaara  43:22

Oh yes. That was very strange because there was a misunderstanding with the with the Japanese girl that she that she had signed me in with her but I made the right decision to stay with

Daniel Kiernan  43:39

What he did and what's it like to be so wanted Harry?

Harri Heliovaara  43:47

Honestly, for example, French Open where I did not want to play mixed doubles. I got several several players asking me to play but no, in US Open I actually wanted to play and of course no one asked me beforehand. That I mean, it's just how it goes sometimes that that was the maybe that was the reason that I and we are the champions of years old.

Daniel Kiernan  44:09

It's just it's amazing re listening to that and just Yeah, it's such an inspirational story I think for for everybody because you know, we see and we talked about this a lot on the podcast, you know, Carlos Alcaraz, Novak Djokovic, Iga Swiatek You know, these kinds of names that they've been superstars for such a young age. And whereas, Harri, Anna, Gaby, Erin, they've been going on it for a good few years, you know, and they'll they would have had so many moments where they thought this is not happening for us, you know, we're not gonna get our big moment on the big stage. And I guess just for for all of us, you never quite know, you know, you keep knocking at the door. You keep, you know, keep doing the right things every single day or All four of them are just ultimate professionals. And they've had this incredible, this incredible journey out in New York.

Victoria Kiernan  45:07

Well Gaby said that as well. So Gabby Dabrowski has been a panelist on our Grand Slam previews and reviews. She's an awesome talker. She's so knowledgeable about the game and she's actually on the WTA Council. And she said, after Chris Eubanks had had his amazing run to the quarterfinals, Wimbledon, she came on the review and said, What is so special about this for Chris, and shows us all is that you never know when success will come and it was so lovely listening to that back in the Wimbledon review, because just a couple of months later, there she is, with her first Grand Slam title,

Daniel Kiernan  45:44

It is. And for me, actually to talk to Gabby and Erin, as the as the host of the podcast, it was quite hard to not speak as a coach.

Victoria Kiernan  45:55

They had the real giggles, they had like real nervous energy

Daniel Kiernan  45:59

But it was it was to have that reflection a few weeks on. And I guess for me as a coach, the big thing I want to know next, and this is what's now being worked on, is how do we have sustainable success? You know, it's not that anybody can win a Grand Slam? Of course not. But sometimes you don't quite know what it was that helped you win the Grand Slam. And you know, trying to find that sustainable success. So my questioning with them was probably a little bit coach led. But certainly, one thing we wanted to ask them is whether it's something you now the US Open champions.

Erin Routliffe  46:35

Yeah, I think it's still quite hard to put into words, I think it was a bit surreal. Now, I think like you said, like going and playing, you know, pretty quick, after you kind of make puts it into perspective, in the sense of like, you got to just keep going keep fighting. But yeah, that it was an incredible two weeks that I'll remember for the rest of my life. 100% It was amazing.

Daniel Kiernan  46:59

Gaby, have you been able to enjoy it at all?

Gaby Dabrowski  47:02

Um, not too much. I celebrated a little bit after the Guadalajara final, actually, before flying to Tokyo. So that maybe counts kind of as a small celebration that includes the result in Guadalajara and the result at the US Open. But no, it was a really quick turnaround, haven't really been able to switch off and enjoy properly. But you know, the end of season is coming soon, we've got a final push. So I'll celebrate later, it's fine.

Daniel Kiernan  47:34

When you reflect if we go into a little bit more detail. Now, obviously I was there with you. So I have my own reflections on it as well. But first round, you were set down. Second round three all love 40 Down in the third quarter, final six two, two love looking close to being down and out. And and then seven to down in the final set tie break. You know, and I guess what it brings to me, Erin is the question of, of success, you know, and success and failure is so close in how we perceive it. If we if our success measure is winning, then and our failure measure is losing, then we're always in this kind of strange place where we're never that far away. So as you reflect back to those moments were as you went through was that was there a moment where you thought, shit, we're done here? Was there a moment where you thought, this is going to be our year? We're gonna keep on going? Or we're just living that moment.

Erin Routliffe  48:43

I think there might have been, I think there was a few thoughts of like, oh, shit, we're done here. Kinda I think just because like, they're, you know, like you said, I mean, seven, two in the quarters. Like, that was like a year kind of, I don't want to say down now, obviously, because we ended up winning the match, but it felt like it was, you know, the end of it would still would have been a really good, you know, result for us. And no, I don't I haven't. People have asked me if I've like let myself if I let myself think like, oh, this is our year to win or like, think about winning the US Open. And I realistically like never ever thought that until it was like set five 3 40 15 in the finals like until match point happened. That's when I was like, okay, like, that's when the moment kind of got to me or like that's when I thought it but until then I never really thought it I was just like staying in the moment. You know, being there with Gaby and just trying to fight the best that I could and best that we could together basically.

Daniel Kiernan  49:46

And if you get to that point, Gaby where you're thinking we could win the US Open title here. How do you even swing the tennis racket?

Gaby Dabrowski  49:58

Well I pretended it was Isn't I pretended the Finals was a first round match that got moved indoors on Ash there was a slot open. And because I actually experienced that before, so that didn't seem like a weird thing to me, I'd been in a position where I played a match outdoors, it rained, we got moved to Ashe to finish the match, or I played a full match on Ashe. And so that to me felt doable. Because I'd been there before. And so I kind of just tricked myself for a while thinking that that was the scenario versus like, Oh, I'm actually playing for a Grand Slam title here, you know, something, that's something that I've wanted for a really long time. Because otherwise, I think I would have got in my own way too much.

Daniel Kiernan  50:40

But somebody's listening, going. Yeah, but I try and do that. But then there's this little bloody voices that a monkey jumps up and goes, No, it's not. No, it's not. This is a Grand Slam final, you're playing for a Grand Slam final don't screw it up. So how? So how do you stop that voice? Or how do you tolerate that voice if it does appear?

Gaby Dabrowski  51:01

In that match, I do remember thinking a lot about intentionality. And well, actually, in all of our matches, I would say even when we were struggling, it was kinda like, we kind of knew why, I would say, and so in the finals, it was like a if we lost a point, it felt like pretty clear why we lost it, or when we want to point it was quite clear why we won it and how we made our opponents uncomfortable that day. And I think we had a really good game plan going into that match. And I feel like we both stuck to it as as best as we could. And I think that's what helped us stay present. throughout everything. There was a little moment where when I fell, I wasn't really sure what was going on for about 10 minutes afterward. But luckily, Erin carried me. And then we won that first set, because Have we lost that first set? Who knows what would have happened?

Victoria Kiernan  51:51

I don't know about you, but it already feels like such a long time ago since the US Open. So super excited going into the new season in 2024. And Australia.

Daniel Kiernan  52:02

I mean, I can't tell you how excited I am the last couple of mornings. The United Cup has been on my phone as I've woken up and gone to the gym. And yeah, look, it's it's, we know how much happens in a year. You know, it's so many things can happen, who's year's gonna be in who's going to come out of the woodwork, you know, who's going to solidify themselves as the best in the world who's playing futures events right now in Tunisia, who is going to rock up at Wimbledon to make the third or fourth round, you know, there's, there's just a whole lot of opportunity out there. And as a big, big tennis fan, ourselves, I just love this period of the year. I feel very fortunate as well to be going out to Australia and in a few days time. Vicki's looking at me not overly happy.

Victoria Kiernan  52:53

The jealousy levels are off the charts.

Daniel Kiernan  52:56

We've only got a few years before the kids go off to university and then you'll be on that plane as well.

Victoria Kiernan  53:01

I always say Dan's been traveling for years now. Well, the whole the whole time we've known each other and it always seemed that little bit easier when he was in a not so nice place in a particularly difficult city in the world. But when he swanning around to Paris, Rome, Madrid Melbourne, not not so not so easy to pretend that I'm not jealous.

Daniel Kiernan  53:25

Well, I wish you were coming with me and but it's, it's going to be it's going to be a great start to the air that that I'm sure of. As always, we will be bringing our Australian Open Preview. And that's just in a couple of weeks from now. And also look out for our next Podcast Short, who will be a top Australian professional tennis player who is going to be playing his last Grand Slam out in Melbourne. Answers on a postcard, or seen as 2024 answers via social media. or whichever way you want to get in touch with us. Who do you think is going to be our Podcast Short coming to you in the next couple of weeks.

Victoria Kiernan  54:08

And that will be our first episode of 2024 which seems crazy. But also, I just wanted to say thank you to you for listening in 2023 we massively appreciate you taking the time to tune in and support the show.

Daniel Kiernan  54:25

Well said Vicki, big thank you from myself and everybody at the Control the Controllables team, a Happy New Year. But one final thing that I would like to mention, actually dedicate this end of the podcast to is it was our Episode 14 And he's a coach John Hicks who impacted so many of our lives you know, certainly Hey, I looked back very fondly. At my trips aware as a youngster I hated him and I loved him in equal measure as he had me running around hotel isn't doing running squats at five o'clock in the morning, because I've been a naughty boy for some reason or another. But he also brought a lot of joy and inspiration to all of our lives. And a few weeks ago, John, aged 90 passed away. And I know he's going to be a massive loss to the tennis world. So a big big shout out to all of John's family, in particular his wife, Jan, who is like the tennis mother, to so many. And you know, we all here for Jan and the family. And a big, big thank you to John Hicks for everything that he brought to our lives and his legend, will will live on long in British tennis, the impact that he's had Rest in peace, John Hicks. It

John Hicks  55:47

It was a good life, a great life. I thoroughly enjoyed I mean, but I was an independent coach doing other work as well. I did. I did national work for Wales. I had Cheshire County players coming in for individual lessons and things like that, you know, I was when I'm finished that I'd probably do four individual lessons a day, and I'd work weekends. I had different ways. This was to keep good players in the game were for them to tell people how good this squad was, and I did it extreme. Wasn't Why should you get paid for that? If I could do it now. I would. I there's nothing I miss more than coaching. It's amazing.